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The Silver Lining of NPC Delays Etc


lemmy101

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-snip-

Representing the vocal minority, as per his title . . .

 

okay dev's don't get me wrong you are an amazing developers and all im actually impressed but...

 

i brought this game about a year or 2 ago and it had no npc's. so i waited and waited and waited but i can only take so much before blowing zombies brains outs gets really boring. 

 

so it would great to see npc's in the next update 

 

 

sincerely your community,

Getting upset about these things, at this point, doesn't help. I'm sorry you're frusturated with the development process, as relating to NPCs, but they'll take as long as they take, boredom or not. Just remember that the devs are just as frustrated as you at the slow progress and feel immense pressure to perform at this point.

In the meantime, I'd recommend trying out multiplayer if you're able. It certainly is nice to play with more than just yourself. :) And if you'd like to see how NPCs used to be, try out 2.0q: http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/2064-older-versions/?hl=%2Bolder+%2Bversions+%2Bdownload#entry29858

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-snip-

Representing the vocal minority, as per his title . . .

okay dev's don't get me wrong you are an amazing developers and all im actually impressed but...

 

i brought this game about a year or 2 ago and it had no npc's. so i waited and waited and waited but i can only take so much before blowing zombies brains outs gets really boring. 

 

so it would great to see npc's in the next update 

 

 

sincerely your community,

Getting upset about these things, at this point, doesn't help. I'm sorry you're frusturated with the development process, as relating to NPCs, but they'll take as long as they take, boredom or not. Just remember that the devs are just as frustrated as you at the slow progress and feel immense pressure to perform at this point.

In the meantime, I'd recommend trying out multiplayer if you're able. It certainly is nice to play with more than just yourself. :)

 

 

But i like playing with myself....People are scary

 

I trust the devs in delivering something worthy of the wait so i shall play with myself all day someday.

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I dont get one thing, why dont you just play MP, its the best way to "not play alone". find some nice whitelisted server and enjoy the game.

The RP part, huge bases, co op and interaction with other players, NPCs no matter how good, they will never be as realistic as other players.

From my point of view NPCs will be good for dooing boring stuff, watering farm, cleaning corpses, clearing area around the base.

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I dont get one thing, why dont you just play MP, its the best way to "not play alone". find some nice whitelisted server and enjoy the game.

The RP part, huge bases, co op and interaction with other players, NPCs no matter how good, they will never be as realistic as other players.

From my point of view NPCs will be good for dooing boring stuff, watering farm, cleaning corpses, clearing area around the base.

 

From my point of view, sometimes is more amusing to play wiht NPCs because you get neat stories from them (Rouge Survivor comes to mind everytime)

 

I do play RP but it usually leads to some bad soap opera drama going on, then we get players trying to be try-hards or having some sort of "MY CHARACTER IS CRAZY YOO, LIKE THE JOOKER AND SHIT" that really takes me out of the game or the typical canniblas that are so original with their background stories (i never seen a good cannibal character in any MP RP server period).

 

I do love me some MP moments but they are far and between too sometimes that i cant quite get that feeling off me that i prefer to play alone with my bots friends that with some people sometimes.

 

 

TL;DR: I love MP but i prefer to play with the promised NPCs alone so i get more immersed in my game, also sometimes servers are empty.

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i think npcs in this game wont last long unless they the devs put them inside locked rooms and give them a special code that makes zombies ignore them.

 

i mean i cant imagine a npc dodging hordes of zombies like a boss and surviving

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i think npcs in this game wont last long unless they the devs put them inside locked rooms and give them a special code that makes zombies ignore them.

 

i mean i cant imagine a npc dodging hordes of zombies like a boss and surviving

Have you seen the NPCs videos?

 

The devs are delaying the NPCs because of that reason and they play better than a player sometimes.

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snip

Yeah, basically how I feel about the thing as of late but shhh, having doubts is depressing, we don't like depressing in these here parts.

As for those suggesting MP to people who prefer SP, I'd take whatever lemmy has cooked up to date over some "sentient" beings anytime. I haven't had a single MP session utterly ruined by some cheater, sledhammer wielding Hulk or a bandit "roleplayer" and I said "roleplayer" because god damnit, if that's really the best character idea someone can come up with for roleplaying then I'd rather have o'l PZ gun nuts in my game, at least they were NPCs who HAD to act like that, I expect more from beings with, supposedly, higher brain functions than a random dude running around with a gun.

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snip

Yeah, basically how I feel about the thing as of late but shhh, having doubts is depressing, we don't like depressing in these here parts.

As for those suggesting MP to people who prefer SP, I'd take whatever lemmy has cooked up to date over some "sentient" beings anytime. I haven't had a single MP session utterly ruined by some cheater, sledhammer wielding Hulk or a bandit "roleplayer" and I said "roleplayer" because god damnit, if that's really the best character idea someone can come up with for roleplaying then I'd rather have o'l PZ gun nuts in my game, at least they were NPCs who HAD to act like that, I expect more from beings with, supposedly, higher brain functions than a random dude running around with a gun.

 

Yeah, no. I'm recommended it because there's no other alternative. You're talking about problems that exist on public servers. There's more than one way to play multiplayer. If you're not open to it, that's fine.

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Yeah, no. I'm recommended it because there's no other alternative and you're talking about problems that exist on public servers. There's more than one way to play multiplayer.

Yeah well, steam integration has a good chance of fixing some of those issues, looking forward to that. As far as whitelist servers go, there isn't a single one I really like and they are not exempt from bad behavior, they sure are better as  assholes only get one chance but, meh.

It could be I just hate human beings in general (or have the kind of luck that puts me in the way of assholes) but MP will never cut it.

I've had some good, really, really good MP sessions back in the day, all of them were closed RP games with friends, we all payed at the same times, our characters were all "In the loop" it's the kind of experience that is completely impossible to replicate in any open or semi-open public MP environment. Just makes NPCs that much more important for me.

Edit: It's really all about completely immersion, for me, and propably for some other people, that is impossible in MP as someone always breaks character or "roleplays" in a sad way.

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snip

Yeah, basically how I feel about the thing as of late but shhh, having doubts is depressing, we don't like depressing in these here parts.

As for those suggesting MP to people who prefer SP, I'd take whatever lemmy has cooked up to date over some "sentient" beings anytime. I haven't had a single MP session utterly ruined by some cheater, sledhammer wielding Hulk or a bandit "roleplayer" and I said "roleplayer" because god damnit, if that's really the best character idea someone can come up with for roleplaying then I'd rather have o'l PZ gun nuts in my game, at least they were NPCs who HAD to act like that, I expect more from beings with, supposedly, higher brain functions than a random dude running around with a gun.

But I hope that NPC bandits will also KOS, its not a B grade american film that bandit will make up whole essay before pulling the trigger.

I agree that cheaters in MP can ruin the game but we have a lot whitelisted servers. Claim a house, invite friends and you will get a great experiance.

A lot of early MP issues have been solved. we have whitelist for cheaters, claming houses for griefers and loot and zed respawning so admin dont have to reset server every few days.

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But I hope that NPC bandits will also KOS, its not a B grade american film that bandit will make up whole essay before pulling the trigger.

I agree that cheaters in MP can ruin the game but we have a lot whitelisted servers. Claim a house, invite friends and you will get a great experiance.

A lot of early MP issues have been solved. we have whitelist for cheaters, claming houses for griefers and loot and zed respawning so admin dont have to reset server every few days.

I really hope NPC bandits will not be that. KOS is fucked up at it's core in any video game other than maybe ARMA, there is no cheaper way to die in any video game ever, but that behavior from an NPC is acceptable, for me, that behavior from players is not, it just screams "I'm too stupid for anything other than Run & Gun so Fuck You".

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But I hope that NPC bandits will also KOS, its not a B grade american film that bandit will make up whole essay before pulling the trigger.

I agree that cheaters in MP can ruin the game but we have a lot whitelisted servers. Claim a house, invite friends and you will get a great experiance.

A lot of early MP issues have been solved. we have whitelist for cheaters, claming houses for griefers and loot and zed respawning so admin dont have to reset server every few days.

I really hope NPC bandits will not be that. KOS is fucked up at it's core in any video game other than maybe ARMA, there is no cheaper way to die in any video game ever, but that behavior from an NPC is acceptable, for me, that behavior from players is not, it just screams "I'm too ństupid for anything other than Run & Gun so Fuck You".
I know that when someone KOS you its not the best way to die but then its realistic. We have aiming lvl, LOS, and many more factors in PvP combat. If you dont like it there are PvE servers. From my experiance from PvP servers - avoid telling your posision on global chat, sneak a bit and observe other players before comming close. You just do the same things like you would in real pos-apo world.

And tbh I have over 200h in MP experiance. mostly public servers that now are whitelisted. They KOS me only 3 or 4 times.

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I know that when someone KOS you its not the best way to die but then its realistic. We have aiming lvl, LOS, and many more factors in PvP combat. If you dont like it there are PvE servers. From my experiance from PvP servers - avoid telling your posision on global chat, sneak a bit and observe other players before comming close. You just do the same things like you would in real pos-apo world.

And tbh I have over 200h in MP experiance. mostly public servers that now are whitelisted. They KOS me only 3 or 4 times.

Welp, I have some really bad luck to MP then :P And I typically don't use global anyway. And I don't play PvP because those servers are almost as bad as any DayZ session.

And as far as aiming itself goes, it needs some serious tweaks, what if you want too shoot to disable? No way to aim at a specific body part is a bad thing. I do get when it's a intended headshot but come on... Players who shoot on sight are bags of dicks if you ask me and when it comes to NPCs, Imagine that you survived for 8 months and got KOS by a random NPC gun nut, that would cause more pure rage than pressing E to open a door and jumping over a fence from 3rd floor.

Edit: Idk, seriously, my MP luck just keeps placing me in the way of complete sentient bags of garbage.

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I know that when someone KOS you its not the best way to die but then its realistic. We have aiming lvl, LOS, and many more factors in PvP combat. If you dont like it there are PvE servers. From my experiance from PvP servers - avoid telling your posision on global chat, sneak a bit and observe other players before comming close. You just do the same things like you would in real pos-apo world.And tbh I have over 200h in MP experiance. mostly public servers that now are whitelisted. They KOS me only 3 or 4 times.

Welp, I have some really bad luck to MP then :P And I typically don't use global anyway. And I don't play PvP because those servers are almost as bad as any DayZ session.

And as far as aiming itself goes, it needs some serious tweaks, what if you want too shoot to disable? No way to aim at a specific body part is a bad thing. I do get when it's a intended headshot but come on... Players who shoot on sight are bags of dicks if you ask me and when it comes to NPCs, Imagine that you survived for 8 months and got KOS by a random NPC gun nut, that would cause more pure rage than pressing E to open a door and jumping over a fence from 3rd floor.

Edit: Idk, seriously, my MP luck just keeps placing me in the way of complete sentient bags of garbage.

Try Evil Dead server.

For aiming IMO the system used in world of tanks would be great.

I agree that beeing KOSed after 8+ months would create a huge shit storm upon this forum, but then if we want realistic hostile NPC lets make them as real as possible. IMO this is why I love PZ MP and The Walking Dead comic, no one is safe and no one is super hero, one mistake, bad move, shot from behind and your gone.

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Try Evil Dead server.

For aiming IMO the system used in world of tanks would be great.

I agree that beeing KOSed after 8+ months would create a huge shit storm upon this forum, but then if we want realistic hostile NPC lets make them as real as possible. IMO this is why I love PZ MP and The Walking Dead comic, no one is safe and no one is super hero, one mistake, bad move, shot from behind and your gone.

 

Easy Fix: NPC Settings Sanbox Option "NPC can Kill on Sight" and everybody will be happy. Options are good, I hope we will have a megaton of them for NPCs.

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I would prefer NPCs it they do per say "KoS", dont kill you right away.

 

Maybe be critical wounded or get a "warning: you are about to be filled with lead" shot in the leg or arm or whatever to give you the chance to escape in later months.

 

I mean i am all for the brutalness of PZ, but the NPC KoS mentality equals of the game randomly spawning 10 zombies inside your bedroom and going "Well they appeared from the dressers" (maybe not the best example.)

 

I just want a bit of fairness when it comes to guns, if you get randomly shot, you must have a way to fight back and die trying or limp your way to escape. Not get shot and die on the spot.

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...

 

Sorry, can’t tell if you exaggerating a bit or if it’s already sarcasm…

 

 

...

 

Sometimes rockets do nothing but explode (do you know kerbal space program?)

Nope, I was being 100% sincere and genuine in my post. No over exaggeration or sarcasm. I spoke what is an honest truth, to me anyways. IMO TIS does not need NPCs to be successful. They already are. We are all here discussing the game after all, I'm venturing to guess because we love the game already. How many hours of your life have you put into it without NPCs? Yeah, they'll be sweet to have, but obviously they haven't been needed for success. Furthermore, a number of months ago TIS disclosed that if sales of PZ stopped and no new revenue was generated (not gonna happen btw) that they had enough cash on hand to maintain their direct operating costs and developement costs for at least 2 more years. Find a number of other indie game companies that can say that in the volatile gaming industry. They have already made an amazing game that keeps getting better, and they're financially successful in doing so.

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...

 

Sorry, can’t tell if you exaggerating a bit or if it’s already sarcasm…

 

 

...

 

Sometimes rockets do nothing but explode (do you know kerbal space program?)

Nope, I was being 100% sincere and genuine in my post. No over exaggeration or sarcasm. I spoke what is an honest truth, to me anyways. IMO TIS does not need NPCs to be successful. They already are. We are all here discussing the game after all, I'm venturing to guess because we love the game already. How many hours of your life have you put into it without NPCs? Yeah, they'll be sweet to have, but obviously they haven't been needed for success. Furthermore, a number of months ago TIS disclosed that if sales of PZ stopped and no new revenue was generated (not gonna happen btw) that they had enough cash on hand to maintain their direct operating costs and developement costs for at least 2 more years. Find a number of other indie game companies that can say that in the volatile gaming industry. They have already made an amazing game that keeps getting better, and they're financially successful in doing so.

 

 

If NPCs are not in the game, they would be lying to their customers then.

 

Also have you seen how many people are really waiting for NPCs before giving in the money? Most people come from Youtube videos right? And the stories player make up to their deaths in the game.

 

Do you have any idea of how many people will buy the game for the NPCs? When vehicles and NPCs are in, the sales are going to ramp up because is one of the features a lot of people has spoke about since the devs teased us way back when with Kate and Bob.

 

I know that TIS is going to give us NPCs sooner or way way waaay later, but when PZ leaves early access, they will be truly more successful than they are right now.

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It's a hard situation right here.

 

On one hand i would like to see super intelligent NPCs that will make everything like a real player, but on other hand i'm scared, just scared, because having active super-NPCs on the map will take so muuuuuchhhh resources.

 

NPCs update will be a kick in the nuts for the end-PC players (like me, sadly).

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To many triple A games go cheap on AI, its one of the reasons I can't stand Watch Dogs, and its especially apparent in games like FEAR when you compare its AI to that of its sequels in FEAR 2 & 3, its like day and night levels of difference. So seeing not only devs with high standards but also making sure it ends up working well and not unstable & game breaking, thats good. But there comes a time when you have to put your foot down and say that perhaps its time to stop pouring in new ideas as to how NPC's will function and start dialing it back until you have something that is atleast 'in the near future' ready. I'm sure thats whats already happened, have something workable ready and have its design locked in, waiting is always hardest when you don't know how long you've got to wait I guess. Which dawns on many after the first few delays.

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I certainly hope you do not hesitate in writing down any of your ideas popping around your mind for other games/any project.  When you shackle your own creativity in order to finish something from it that spurred out of that creativity, it's really painful when you try to remember that thing that sparked you hard and it really felt like a good idea, with plenty of deep stuff to dig into.
In either case, I can understand why it's important to you, both PZ and everything else after, while still caring about the community.  However having all of that shit run in the brains constantly can just eat you and make you go on a burnout.  Or leaving the first idea to move onto the other one that didn't leave you and kept evolving to a point you forgot what the whole thing around it was about.  Kinda like how I'm losing myself as to why in da hell did I just type all of that.  *coughs*  anyway.  Just dun' go mad.  Trust me...  HUHEHEHEHEHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHHAA

Take care.  <3

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I still check the PZ news every Monday (hourly, until the Mondoid posts) hoping that vehicles will be mentioned in there, like a little glimmer of hope that they're coming soon.  It's like my optimism I.V., slowly adding life-giving nutrients to my PZ soul.  PZ will be even better when they're implemented, and I won't give up on life because all that I could wish for was finally granted to me, but I'll definitely be more consumed with collecting ALL of the things.  For now, I do have Hydrocraft, and the wheelbarrow makes for a messy and cluttered safehouse.  My 6 foot tall pile of rubber ducks and Spiffos approve though.

 

On topic:  Yeah, NPC's are cool, it'll be cool when they're added, take your time.  ...vehicles!!!!  

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It would be so cool to know exactly what you guys are trying to do with the NPCs... because its all programming I imagine it is almost on the same scale of creating an organism from scratch, their in-game and survival behaviours, what actions they can and can't do, disposition when it comes to situations and how they act in those situations to seem more alive and all that. I imagine you guys starting out with something on par with an ant and then trying to develop that primitive creature into something more and more complex until eventually you have something that looks, feels, and plays like a human. It's a gargantuan task and I see it as the software equivalent of creating robots derived from the natural world, which is exceedingly difficult. A lot more money goes into stuff like that and they still haven't succeeded in creating something as fluid, dynamic and alive as any kind of living creature. I just hope you guys are enjoying working on something so unique and inspiring as revolutionary AI. If it's really really really good you could even make a ton of money by licensing it. The little snippets and teases you have given us so far of their avoidance behaviour have been pretty cool, I'll never forget that poor group of green dots in the bottom right. RIP in pieces green dots, RIP. :(

 

I wish you guys the best of luck and can't wait to see how it turns out!! PZ is literally on a whole nother level in terms of gameplay and there are only a few games I would seriously compare it to when it comes to feel, scope and scale.

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