Occupation/Trait Discussion

[Tyken132]

Occupations:

In this selection I'll broadly cover all the Occupations and go into a bit more detail of the more unique ones.

Unemployed: After doing more testing this more, it isn't nearly as good as it could be. However, it's perfect if you have a specific build in mind that the current occupations don't fit.

Skill Occupations: While some jobs aren't entirely worth it, picking one that fits your skill focus in a god send. Otherwise leveling up core professions are a nightmare, even with books and/or fast learner.

"Unqiue" Occupations: These give you unique traits that are occupation only. Namely:

Security Guard: Night Owl - According to mutiple sources, this is currently broken and a waste.

Veteran: Desensitized - I feel like this could be hit or miss. Unless panic became much more of pain or you plan on using nothing but close ranged guns, panic won't be much of an issue.

Lumberjack: Cutting tree's faster isn't that great but axes are the best melee weapon in the game. Hitting things faster isn't as amazing as you'd think but its helpful. Otherwise not overly amazing.

 

Positive Traits:

Adrenaline Junkie(-8): Holy cow, look at that cost. Not to mention its very situational. However, if you combine it with Panic traits and Athletic/Fit, you'll be running for days. Avoid, otherwise.

Athletic/Fit(-10/-6): These are awesome. First of all, faster running is straight up amazing for early AND late game. You'll be traveling long distances and carting back heavy loads. The fact that you can run longer helps, too. Myself and many others believe that the extra +2 fitness isn't worth the cost for Athletic, however the 6 points for the extra speed/length is.

Brave(-4): Panic wasn't much of an issue last year and It doesn't seem to be that big of an issue now, either. It might get in the way of gun play but if you're worried about panic, go with Vetran.

Cat's Eyes(-2): Personally? I'd avoid this. As far as I can tell it only increases the sight cone and not brightness. You can also increase brightness in video settings, so no big loss.

Dextrous(-2): Transfering items is a massive pain when you have a bag full of stuff you're trying to throw into a box. However, if you're in a safe location like your base, you can simply speed up the clock. Useful but definately not "Priority"
Eagle Eyed(-6): As far as I can tell this only increases sight distance and not cone size. Sort of useless as you can "view" further out with ctrl, anyway.

Fast Healer(-6): I feel like this trait could be great or terrible as first aid is a massive pain in the butt and lets face it, you're going to get hurt no matter how careful you are. However, unless you're very prone to damage or aren't very good, chances are this isn't going to be used much. However, may be more useful late game when medical supplies are scarce. Also keep in mind that you can get "very well fed" for a large healing boost as well, provided you have plenty of food. If you're playing MP, though. You might want to consider taking this skill as you can't speed up time.

Fast Learner(-6): I feel like this has the potential to be a "core" ability. This would make leveling non-book skills much easier. I see no real downside to this trait, even the cost. Howver, the extra 30% isn't noticed very well unless you already have other skill boosters.

Fast Reader(-2): For 2 points this isn't terrible, however you'll have -tons- of free time on your hands once you hit mid-game and are fairly established. Not really worth picking up unless you have 2 points laying around and nothing else looks appealing.

Graceful/Inconspicuous(-4): I've lumped these together as they go hand in hand. If you plan on sneaking around? Perfect for you! However, I find "Sneaking" is very dangerous in most cases and is largely easier to deal with the threat.

Iron Gut(-3): Don't eat raw/rotten foods and save 3 points.

Keen Hearing(-6): Do you want to hear a zombie banging on a window 3 blocks down? Even if you did, the cost is a bit high for what it gives. However it should increase your "Vision Bubble" and help you "detect" threats that may be coming up around you. If you aren't normally aware of your surrounds, it could help.

Light Eater(-4): A tad high for what it does and doesn't effect you at all early game. Even late game, food shouldn't be too much of an issue, provided you only eat when hungry.

Low Thirst(-4): Early game? Fill up empty/condiment bottles, pots, bowls, etc. With water from the tap and store them somewhere safe. Should be perfectly fine while saving 4 points.

Lucky(-4): The wiki says it doesn't effect infection chances but from what I hear, it does make you less likely to get bit/scratched, which is amazing if it does. Even if it doesn't? Increased rare loot is AMAZING, I'd pay 6 points just for that alone. Suck it up because this is basically a core ability. Ontop of that, it also increases your repair chances.

Organised(-6): Normal container space is 40, this bumps it up to 65! Kind of nice, if you want to put a lot of things in one place. However, not very useful late game when you can build as many containers as you like. Also pricey.

Outdoorsman(-2): Core ability. There is only 3 things that can make you sick now, bites, infect wounds, and rotten food. For 2 points, this ads TONS of survival. This was also the main reason park ranger was one of the best occupations.

Resilient(-4): There aren't a lot of things that are going to make you sick, even less if you avoid bad food/water and take outdoorsman. However, this skill apparently reduces the risk of a scratch causing a zombie infection. Not to mention it reduces the chances of regular infections. Its not core by any means but it could save your butt.

Strong/Stout(-10/-6): Strength isn't very well explained but chances are you hit harder with melee weapons and higher carry capacity. Unless its changed, you can still carry up to 50lb total, but this will allow you to carry more before being slowed down. The extra push back is nice if you're melee but isn't nessicary. Unlike Athletic/Fit, Strong is the much better choice, as the extra 2 damage is what matters most. Also more carry is always so nice.

Thick Skinned(-6): Yes, Shut up. This will save your ass so many times. Less chance of bite, lower damage IF damaged, harder to be wounded. Its basically Core.

Wakeful(-2): Eh, not so great. You'll want to spend your nights sleeping, all this will do is give you more book time.

 

Hobby Traits:

Angler, Baseball Player, Brawler, First Aider, Former Scout, Gardener, Gymnast, Handy, Hiker, Hunter, Runner, Self Defense Class.

 

All of these skills give a +1 in one or more skills, as well as an aparent bonus to EXP when leveling them, naturally. However, given that you have plenty of time to level them. I don't feel like many of these are even worth taking, minus few expections. (I.E. a specific skill build)

 

While none of these are core, having atleast one in your primary skills works wonders while leaving them up. Otherwise, avoid any you can't spare.

 

Negitive Traits:

Agoraphobic/Claustrophobic(+4): Panic is -rarely- an issue unless you're using guns and even the, not so much. They're a tad annoying hearing the "panic" heartbeat sounds while doing nothing dangerous, but otherwise no big deal. Claustrophobic is going to effect you least when you're out doors and none at all if you have an outdoors base. Feel free to take both for +8. However, While Panic doesn't really hurt anything, it is damned annoying..

All Thumbs(+2): Only 2 points for something fairly annoying throughout the entire game. I'd say avoid but if you need +2 points its not so bad. However, as mentioned with dexterous. You have all the time in the world while in your base.

Asthmatic(+5): This one is iffy for me. It can be taken with Fit/athletic but it only makes you lose endurance faster. I'd say avoid as the main reason for taking fit is the ability to run longer without getting exhaustion. Take last if needed.

Clumsy/Conspicuous(+2): Unless you're intentionally going for sneaky, this is actually a boon. As the easiest way to clear out large amounts of zombies is to round them up and set them on fire. These help with that.

Cowardly(+2): Simular points as the phobia's. Panic is going to happen, its unavoidable. However, panic can always be annoying.

Deaf(+12): Holy crap have we hit the holy grail of negitive traits. Like seriously, holy crap. Ok first, let me explain why its bad. You won't hear zombies, at all. If one's behind you? Oh well. However, if you're careful and keep an eye out like you should ALWAYS do, then it does nothing. The only other bad thing is that you can't hear alarms or other noises that attract zombies. Besides from that? Straight up amazing for what you give up. Infact, I like it as I hate hearing the constant zomboid noises.

Note: Keep in mind, this is my opinion on the ability and many disagree. However you get a ton of points for something that barely efffects you, provided you're aware of your surroundings and careful.

Disorganised(+4): You only give up a wopping 5lb of inventory space, which isn't that big of a deal. However it is incredibly annoying, even late game, when you have the ability to make as many containers as you like. If you need 4 points, go ahead.

Feeble/Weak(+6/+10): I say no, even if you don't want Strong/Stout, you shouldn't take something that negitivly effects your melee/carry cap. If you want to focus on guns, this isn't terrible. However, its going to be a massive pain in the ass throughout the game. However, if you have a specific, non combat role in MP, its not that bad.

Hard of Hearing(+2): Basically?, free 2 points! It also reduces the radius of zombie noises while still allowing you to hear loud, important noises. Can not be taken with Deaf.

Hearty Appetite/High Thirst(+4/+6): Originally I disliked this but food and water should be readily available, even late game. Provided you're good at rationing and stock piling, it should never be an issue. However, High Thirst can be difficult to deal with if water goes out before you can stockpile some.

Hemophobic(+3): Who seriously cares about panic and if you're on single player, the other part doesn't matter at all.

Hypochondriac(+2): This is a massive pain in the ass to deal with and for only 2 points at that! Avoid.

Illiterate(+8): Please tell me you weren't seriously considering this one. Not being able to read skill books makes leveling those skills just as painful as the others. Avoid.

Obese/Overweight(+10/+6): Nope, same reasons as Feeble/Weak but more so. Avoid.

Pacifist(+4): What are you, a hippie? Pass! On MP, this isn't so bad if you have a non-combat role.

Prone to Illness(+4): With Outdoorsman, this is basically 2 free points. However, potentially makes wounds more infectious. Also potentially increases your chance of a scratch causing zombinisim. I personally never had a problem with it but I may be lucky.

Restless Sleeper(+6): According to multiple sources, it also effects exhaustion, meaning you need more rest to get rid of it. Extremely bad if so. Avoid.

Short Sighter(+2): Apprently, this doesn't reduce your sight cone, only range. Which is easily overcome by using Ctrl to "scroll" out.

Sleepyhead(+4): Apprently, this isn't bad at all. Simply makes you tired more often, which can be great if you need to sleep for whatever reason. Just make sure not to oversleep too much.

Slow Healer(+6): Even without this, healing is a massive pain in the butt, if you're unlucky enough to get hurt. Healing is a massive pain in the ass, even with fast healing. I'd say avoid unless you really need 6 points.

Slow Learner(+6): Avoid at all costs. I mean it. Leveling skills is slow enough.

Slow Reader(+2): Its honestly not that bad, as you'll have plenty of time to read all the books, ever. Many people agree that its basically "free" points.

Thin-skinned(+6): Do I even need to explain why this is bad? Avoid it.

Unlucky(+4): See lucky but oppisite. This is TERRIBLE trait to have, even for 8+ points.

Weak Stomach(+3): Unless I'm mistaken. The only way to get food based illness is to eat raw or rotten food. Fairly easy to avoid for basically 3 free points.

 

Conclusion:

These are all based on my educated opinion from ingame experience. If you'd like to correct any mistakes I've made or make points I may not of seen, feel free to post below and I'll consider and/or correct this post.

 

Occupation:Traits are your bread at butter so try to save some points for that. However, occupations are the only way to raise your fitness/strength besides traits. Also, the "skill" occuptations aren't terrible if you plan on focusing on some specific skills that have no books.

 

Park Ranger: Forage/trapping is great, plus a minor bonus to carp isn't bad.

Lumber Jack: Axeman itself isn't worth it but the bonuses it gives makes you a literal axe murderer. No utility skills, though. Combined with Handy isn't bad, either.

Carpenter: If you plan on doing a lot of building, it isn't bad by any means. You already start fairly high and leveling it is a breeze. A bit -too- focused but not bad by any means. Handy exp boost doesn't stack.

 

 

Traits: What's ideal for me and what's ideal for you are likely very different, however if my opinions above aren't specific enough, here's a few of my favorites to take.

Pro: Fit, Fast Learner, Luckly, Outdoorsman, Strong, Thicked Skin

Con: Claustrophobic, Clumsy/Conspicuous, Cowardly, Deaf, Disorganized, Hard of Hearing, Hearty Eater/High Thirst, Hemophobic, Short Sighted, Sleepyhead, Slow Reader, Weak Stomach

Honorable Mentions:

Adrenaline Junkie, Dextrous, Fast Healer, Graceful/Inconspicuous, Organised, Resilient, Skill focused Traits

Agoraphobic, All Thumbs, Asthmatic, Prone to Illness

Self-Defense Class, Runner

 

Personal Build:

Lumberjack: +Axeman

(+52) Claustrophobic, Clumsy/Conspicuous, Cowardly, Deaf, Disorganized, Hearty Appetite/High Thirst, Hemophobic, Short Sighter, Sleepyhead, Slow Reader, Weak Stomach

(-52) Dextrous, Fast Learner, Fit, Lucky, Outdoorsman, Resilient, Strong, Thicked Skin

Gardener, Handy (Carp/Farming would be primary skills as I plan on doing lots of construction and farming would be my only food source)

[Spracky]

Very impressive post! I see a lot of work went into this, very nice.

[Tyken132]

Very impressive post! I see a lot of work went into this, very nice.

 

Thanks. I remembered as a newer player, how hard it was to find resources on character building. So I figured I'd pass on what I know.

[Moose65]

I disagree with quite a bit on the list, but here are the main points I have an issue with.

 

Security Guard - Nightowl doesn't even work, so this profession needs some looking at.

 

Hobby Traits - Absolutely required if you want to specialize in something, since currently you can stack them with your profession (and occasionally other hobbies) to get upwards of a 125% XP bonus. Since foraging has no books at the moment, you absolutely need them to specialize in it. Also, your gonna have a permanent 0.25 XP multiplier  to Weapon/Agility skills if you don't take any of them. Some builds are pretty good with them, such as the Adrenaline Junkie Fitness Instructor with Runner and Athletic.

 

Long story short, don't dismiss the entire class of hobby traits, you can create some specialized builds with them.

 

Adrenaline Junkie - At -8, this trait is still stupidly good. Agoraphobic + Claustrophobic pay for it, then you get Cowardly + Hemophobic for free basically. For Junkie builds, they essentially get 5 free points (although to be somewhat fair, Cowardly and Hemophobic were already basically free points). This trait though isn't really worth grabbing unless your build is focused on it.

 

Resilient - So wrong on this one. It reduces the chance for infection, which makes scratches even less likely to infect you, along with adding a small chance to bites. Combo'd with thick skin, and the few times scratches get through, you'll have even less of a chance for an infection. The surviving longer through zombification part though is actually annoying, as it makes it harder to tell at times when you have been infected.

 

Agoraphobic/Claustrophobic - I would never take both unless I was doing a junkie build for "free" points. Even though panic isn't a huge issue, having your perception radius constantly narrowed will eventually get you killed.

 

Hard of Hearing - Nope, not 2 free points. I used to think the same, but it actually lowers your perception radius. This combo'd with Extreme panic makes it impossible to see a zombie from behind you until its already in the biting animation. I don't take this any longer as free points unless I absolutely need 2 points and I can't get it elsewhere.

 

Hearty Appetite/High Thirst - Absolutely free points. Food and water is way too easy to get, even in late game. Its not annoying as long as you keep a couple bottle of waters and only eat when the hunger moodle is at hungry or lower.

 

Prone to Illness - Whole lot of NOPE here. Used to think the same, that it was free points with outdoorsmen, until almost every single scratch was infecting me. This works opposite of resilient, raising the chances for scratches/bites to cause infection.

 

Short Sighted - Unlike Hard of Hearing, this is definitely free points. You can still zoom out and see quite a distance away, more than you actually need, as well as the fact that the fading doesn't really cause an issue (I think it might not be working properly). Hasn't gotten me killed yet unlike Hard of Hearing.

 

Slow Reader - 100% free points. Triple speed through those books during the night. I wouldn't dare touch this in multiplayer though.

 

Sleepy Head vs Restless Sleeper - Sleepy Head is WAY better than Restless Sleeper, and I would never take Restless Sleeper over Sleepy Head (taking both is just insane though). Its frustrating to be tired within an hour or two of waking up with Restless Sleeper. However, Sleepy Head has the perk of letting you sleep practically as often as you want, even for 8 hours, which is great because (I may be wrong on this) food/thirst slows down while sleeping, and I think you may heal faster while resting.

 

Even if the above are not true, Sleepy Head is definitely the least annoying of the two, especially if you need points.

 

Just skimming through, everything else I can generally agree with.

[Sharpened Pata]

First off, this thread seems to be pretty similar to http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/13909-easily-digestible-list-of-trait-balance-issues/ , figured I would point it out.

 

 

 

Hobby Traits:

Angler, Baseball Player, Brawler, First Aider, Former Scout, Gardener, Gymnast, Handy, Hiker, Hunter, Runner, Self Defense Class. All of these are a waste of your points, please for the love of god, avoid them all.

 

 

The reason their useful is in the spoiler, copied from here

• Professions
  Professions now often give skill points, and these tie in directly to the learning speed in those skills as well as the starting skill level. This is to further diversity character creation and make the professions feel like an actual previous experience exists instead of starting characters as blank slate.
  
  Also professions are not all necessarily free, so there is the potential for some more powerful start professions to require negative traits to balance. Unemployed gives 8 points to start. This is very important for reasons that will be clear when we talk about the new traits.
  
  So you may pick the Carpenter profession, and right out of the bat this gives you 3 points in carpentry. This not only means starting on level 3, but the carpenter will gain a 50% boost to XP in that skill.
  
  The scaling goes as follows, based on the starting skill level:
  
  0) 0.25x speed (eek)
  1) 1x speed
  2) 1.25x speed
  3) 1.5x speed
  4) 1.5x speed
  5) -
  
  This multiplier is permanent for the entire game. Even when you get to level 1 in a 0 level skill, you retain the x4 time to learn it.
  
  The idea being that now, a carpenter with skills ONLY in carpentry may advance in carpentry at a fast speed. Their hopes of becoming an expert farmer any time soon are remote. So this further diversifies characters to provide much more varied runs in single player, and provides more potential for teamwork and specific roles in MP and ultimately NPCs. However a carpenter being doomed to ONLY ever be able to learn carpentry quickly is going to be in trouble, so enter:

Trait Revamp
A few big changes to traits

1) Currently non relevant traits have been removed until NPCs go in. Light Drinker and all the other cheesable traits.
2) We've added a ton more. Some need better names and others may be OP/UP and may need nerfing or point values changing.
3) To counter the fact that a profession may only allow leveling up a single skill. Specifically, a range of traits now act as hobbies. Say you pick 'Gardener' trait that says the character enjoyed gardening in their pre-apocalypse life. This will give a single point in farming, for example, and while this doesn't seem like a huge deal in itself, since its a character creation skill point, it DOES mean that they are now learning farming at a 1x speed rate instead of just 1/4th speed. This makes farming a viable skill to train up during a run. Think Morrowind minor / major skills. So now the player is encouraged to pick a few hobbies or other traits that round out their character with skills they intend to use, and now with little in the way of exploits with negative traits they will have to build some bigger disadvantages into their character to compensate. This is why unemployed gets extra points to start. They have the time to invest in hobbies, and need them to have any skills they can train at a decent speed at all.

 

In short though, if you don't have a hobby or occupation that gives a skill point to that particular trade, you will learn it at a 1/4 pace.  and if you read the skill book, and get the x3 multiplier, you'll only be learning the skill at a .75 pace, or regular pace, depending on if the multipler is a true multiplier (.75) or additive (1). 

 

 

"Unqiue" Occupations: These give you unique traits that are occupation only. Namely:

Security Guard: Night Owl - This makes you require less sleep and makes you more alert while asleep. Not really worth it in my opinion as you'll likely be sleeping in safe area's 99% of the time. Less sleep could mean more time to read, though.

Sleepyhead(+4): Ironically, this one is way worse than Restless Sleeper for less points. I'd say avoid. Though it may balance out with the Security Guard perk.

 

It doesn't balance out, unfortunately.  This was part of my first build.  You get tired quicker than normal still, as far as I can tell.

 

My personal opinion list:  (not all are listed, as I'm not familiar enough with some of them to be comfortable giving an opinion.)

 

 

Deaf -  Not worth it.  Hearing alarms, helicopters, and that zombie somewhere in the forest/house/somewhere with tight corners is very important.

Weak - Since carry weight, knockback, and strength are all important thing, this seems to be very extreme.  Not worth it, really, in my opinion.

Illiterate -  Nah, skill books are very important to me.

Feeble - For a specific role, multiplayer build, maybe.  Not worth it in SP though.

High Thirst - If you can get to a well or collect a lot of water before the water shuts off?  Free points.
 

Restless Sleeper - Doesn't just sleeping more overcome this?

Slow Healer - Could be a big deal if a wound occurs, or you get a cold.  Might be worth it.

Slow Learner - Probably not worth it, but I wish it gave us a number on how much a decrease.

Thin-skinned - Nope, considering how I will always take thick-skinned.

Asthmatic - Well, I run out of endurance pretty quickly as it is, so for me, personally, not worth it.

Agoraphobic - Might be worth it, if your building a panic-based class, or staying in the city.

Claustrophobic - Might be worth it, if your building a panic-based class, or getting the h*** out of dodge.

Conspicious - Considering how sneaking isn't something I do frequently, and in SP your the only thing they CAN notice, pretty much free points.

Disorganized - IF it doesn't decrease your bag capacity, worth it.

Hearty Appetite - I'm iffy on this one.  4 points for needing to eat a decent amount more?  Good, up until winter, when I can't forage for berries anymore.

Pacifist - Might be worth it for a multiplayer-specific-role build, but otherwise, not for me.

Prone to Illness - If your very careful with rain, food, and wounds, should be fine.  The whole faster rate of infection doesn't matter too much.

Sleepy Head - Currently doesn't matter, but once they add affects for sleeping moodles, will be horrible.

Unlucky - Not worth it in my humble opinion.

Hemophobic - Well, assuming your doing first aid in a safe place, in SP, doesn't matter too much?

Weak Stomach - Don't eat rotten food, bam, free points. 

All Thumbs - I took this my first build.  I'm alright with it so far.  It's slow, but...eh.

Clumsy - Again, with the sneaking bit.  Possibly free points in SP?

Cowardly - Might be good for a panic-driven build.  If panic affects melee weapon accuracy, that's a big deal.  If not, basically free points if your careful.

Hard of Hearding - Unsure on this one.

Hypochondriac - This can kill you!  (so I've been told.)  So, yeah, not taking this.

Short Sighted - Depends on how much smaller, truth be told.

 

Slow Reader - Taking it every time!  In single player at least.  The time speed up button is there for a reason.

 

Cat's Eyes - If it increases the arc size, maybe, depending on how much.  If it actually increases the brightness, very useful.

Dextrous - I may take it next time, to see how much quicker it is.

Fast Reader - Not really worth it to me, as I can just speed up time.

Iron Gut - Eating rotten food isn't really worth it, so not that great.

Angler - If you want to learn fishing at a reasonable pace, useful.

Baseball Player - Not worth it to me, really, for its price.

Brave - If panic is a big deal to you, you might want it.

First Aider - Might be nice in a multiplayer game, for a specific role.

Gardener - If you aren't a farmer, and want to be able to learn decently, might be worth it.

Graceful - For a sneaking build, could be good.

Inconspicious - Also good for a sneaking build.

Gymnast - If you want to build lightfooted and nimble quick, this is your trait.

Brawler - If your trying for a fighter, could be good.

Eagle Eyed - Depends on how much it increases the arc, honestly.

Fast Healer - If your terrible about getting hurt, this is probably for you.  Personally, I'm good without it, since it costs 6 points.

Fit - Very nice, but heavy price.

Former Scout - The first aid doesn't make it worth it to me, would rather take Hiker.

Hiker - A good combo, both allow for gathering of food easier.

Keen Hearing - Depends on how much it increases the range, but at 6 points, it's a high-cost item.

Adrenaline Junkie - If your making a panic-driven class you NEED this.  Otherwise, not so good.

Handy - Could be good, depending on how much it strengthens your structures.  Pricey, though.

Hunter - Not enough for such a high price, in my opinion. 

Athletic - From the description, it has the same stats as fit, so I don't understand.  Not worth it, if that's the case.

 

[Tyken132]

First off, this thread seems to be pretty similar to http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/13909-easily-digestible-list-of-trait-balance-issues/ , figured I would point it out.

 

Didn't see that thread while looking about and I posted my own almost a year ago Here and figured it was time to update. either way, useful to have more than one perspective.

 

The reason their useful is in the spoiler, copied from here

 

The wiki wasn't specifically clear that the traits that give skills also gave the same bonus that skills from occupations gave. Simply stated how it is make it seem like it only give +1 to a skill and thats it.

 

Reguardless on what it or the occupations give in terms of a bonus, I simple argued that the particular bonus wasn't worth it, entirely. Reason being, Sure it levels your skills faster but you have all the time in the world to increase them. Meanwhile, many of those traits either increase your survival, make life easier in the long run, or do things that you can't replicate, otherwise. However, I will update my post about the varies effects of the hobby skills.

 

It doesn't balance out, unfortunately.  This was part of my first build.  You get tired quicker than normal still, as far as I can tell.

 

My personal opinion list:  (not all are listed, as I'm not familiar enough with some of them to be comfortable giving an opinion.)

 

I'll update that bit as well, then. I do believe that even though it doesn't balance out fully, you're not hit nearly as hard by it, either. Giving it a very minimalistic effect in comparison.

 

As for your personal list below:

 

Deaf -  I often play with my sounds off or with music in the background, anyway. Most of my bases and buildings are high up so nothing can get the drop on me as long as I'm there, either. The only thing I agree with is the alarms, which if you're paying attention and are careful, you should notice things before it gets ugly.

Weak - I agee with you on this one, entirely. Though I mentioned it could be taken if absolutely nessicary, though at a great cost.

Illiterate -  Agreed.

Feeble - Same for weak

High Thirst - Don't you need to sterilize water now? Or is that an upcoming feature? Either way, I just felt like it was more upkeep than it was worth.

 

Restless Sleeper - Yes, I imagen sleeping more helps but you normally sleep around 8 hours anyway and as long as you're not in advance stages of exhuastion, you'll clear it up in that time.

Slow Healer - True on colds but if you manage to mistakenly fall or get a serious wound, its a massive pain in the ass and could cause death if you're caught in a bad situtation.

Slow Learner - I agree on the number but anything that decreases exp, a vital part of the game, isn't worth it, imo.

 

Thin-skinned - Agreed.

Asthmatic - Was just testing this one out further and even with Athletic you run out of breath -very- quickly. Also something I didn't notice before was that it also takes longer to recover. Definately not worth it.

Agoraphobic - I build second story buildings to avoid dealing with zombies. Generally I connect various roof tops and knock out all the stairs after I clear them out. Either way, camping or indoor living is fine for this, as it won't matter that much.

Claustrophobic - I think this is the better of the two, as I often deal with larger groups of zombies outside and the panic can get annoying, fast.

Conspicious - Agreed.

Disorganized - Specifically says containers and with the way its worded, I assume no.

Hearty Appetite - I feel like having light eater is just much more of a benifit. its all about prioritizing and I feel like I have better ones to take in this reguard.

Pacifist - Agreed but you'll always need to fight..

Prone to Illness - I agree, however if you take outdoorsman thats only 2 other things to worry about.

Sleepy Head - I agree, it also robs you of precious daylight AND time that could be used more effectivly.

Unlucky - Definately not. Partialy because of effect and partialy because of low points recieved.

Hemophobic - It really doesn't and I seriously doubt you'll be using it often in MP, too. If people are getting hurt that much, something is wrong.

Weak Stomach -  Agreed

All Thumbs - This one kills me, personally. I can see how many people wouldn't mind, though.

Clumsy - Agreed.

Cowardly - I find myself paniced reguardless in most cases, mostly when dealing with more than a handful of zombies.

Hard of Hearding - Speak up. As I mentioned, deaf is far better in my opinion but if you want less extremes, its perfect for some extra points.

Hypochondriac -  Not sure how true that is but its definately a massive pain in the ass. I wish it were more triggered by things and less at random.

Short Sighted - True enough, however I feel like sight is the most important sense in this game, by far.

 

Slow Reader - I can see how this wouldn't hurt by any means. Even in MP I doubt it'd hurt, since last I played sleepiness wasn't an issue, nor could you speed things up. So I'd part my character on a roof and just read all night while going on reddit.

 

Cat's Eyes - I've been playing with it and if it does increase brightness, its not overly noticable. Though i'm sure you could toy with your gamma and such to make the game brighter, anyway.

 

Dextrous - It isn't a massive amount faster but its so nice for only 2 points.

Fast Reader - Agreed.

Iron Gut - If it were possibly to eat rotten food with a 100% success rate, possibly worth it. Means literally being able to eat anything you find. As it is? Not worth it.

 

Brave - I feel like veteran is a better deal for the price.

Graceful - Agreed but dislike sneaking.

Inconspicious - Same

Eagle Eyed - Agreed, its hard to tell a specific distance in game. Though its costly, either way.

Fast Healer - Agreed, very expensive but a life saver if you're new or prone to danger.

Fit - The speed boost and slower exhaust is the main draw. If its If its the same boost to both, but only 2 fitness instead of 4, its much more worth it than athletics.

Keen Hearing - As mentioned, too high cost and definately don't like the increased noise range.

Adrenaline Junkie - I tested it out a lot with many sprint boosters. You really do run much faster but I don't feel like its entirely worth it, unless you're doing something weird in MP.

Handy - Judging by the way its worded in the wiki, I feel like it increases both by simply giving you a +1 carp (which makes things stronger and faster) However, if it did add a secondary bonus, maybe. It'd have to be worth the cost and even then, I don't have many zombies banging on my walls.

Athletic - +2 more fitness, which is nice. However, if the other effects are identical, its definately not worth the 4 extra points. If it somehow is better, then maybe. It actually makes me wonder if it gives "Faster and Longer" ontop of the +2/4 or if it means "Faster and longer BECAUSE of the +2/4"

 

 

[Tyken132]

I disagree with quite a bit on the list, but here are the main points I have an issue with.

 

I respect youre dissagreement and submit my own below.

 

 

Security Guard - Did not know Nightowl was broken. Will adjust the post to fit. Thank you.

 

Hobby Traits - I'm not dismissing them entirely, Though I do see how it comes off like that. I simply meant to imply that I did not feel like the bonus was worth the points, when you have ages to pratice/train skills.

 

Adrenaline Junkie - I Agree with this, though panic builds can get annoying real fast, mostly because of the lost to vision.

 

Resilient - I disagree slightly. As I mentioned in my post, as long as you're careful, you rarely have to worry about cuts and infections. When you do get an issue with a cut, as long as you take care of it right away(And you should carry supplies to do so) then its rarely an issue.

 

Agoraphobic/Claustrophobic - Agreed with the junkie build, I personally prefer Claustrophobic.

 

Hard of Hearing - Does it lower your sight cone too? or just your hearing? If it does the sight cone(Which is silly) then it definately isn't worth it. My post was under the assumption from the hit to hearing, only. However if it is hearing only, a quick spin is perfect for seeing any zombie behind you.

 

Hearty Appetite/High Thirst - True enough on these points. I just know that with the slow to farm growth and the need to sterlize water, it would just add a bit of encumberance to your survival. However, increadibly comical when paired with "Obese"

 

Prone to Illness - Are you entirely sure about this? Any citation or peer review? Unless something has changed, I've rarely been infected.

 

Short Sighted - How is this free points? I'd imagen less sight radius is deadly.

 

Slow Reader -  I somewhat agree in this reguard, though I would say that its fine in MP too, just start reading at night and AFK in your base.

 

Sleepy Head vs Restless Sleeper - First of all, I disagree. Restless sleeper simply takes more sleep to get rid of any sort of exhaustion, which should be minimal if you're sleeping often and not doing anything extreme. Mean while, sleepy head makes you tired more often, which is a pain because there are much better things you can do with your time.

 

[Sharpened Pata]

 

First off, this thread seems to be pretty similar to http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/13909-easily-digestible-list-of-trait-balance-issues/ , figured I would point it out.

 

Didn't see that thread while looking about and I posted my own almost a year ago Here and figured it was time to update. either way, useful to have more than one perspective.

 

The reason their useful is in the spoiler, copied from here

 

The wiki wasn't specifically clear that the traits that give skills also gave the same bonus that skills from occupations gave. Simply stated how it is make it seem like it only give +1 to a skill and thats it.

 

Reguardless on what it or the occupations give in terms of a bonus, I simple argued that the particular bonus wasn't worth it, entirely. Reason being, Sure it levels your skills faster but you have all the time in the world to increase them. Meanwhile, many of those traits either increase your survival, make life easier in the long run, or do things that you can't replicate, otherwise. However, I will update my post about the varies effects of the hobby skills.

 

It doesn't balance out, unfortunately.  This was part of my first build.  You get tired quicker than normal still, as far as I can tell.

 

My personal opinion list:  (not all are listed, as I'm not familiar enough with some of them to be comfortable giving an opinion.)

 

I'll update that bit as well, then. I do believe that even though it doesn't balance out fully, you're not hit nearly as hard by it, either. Giving it a very minimalistic effect in comparison.

 

As for your personal list below:

 

Deaf -  I often play with my sounds off or with music in the background, anyway. Most of my bases and buildings are high up so nothing can get the drop on me as long as I'm there, either. The only thing I agree with is the alarms, which if you're paying attention and are careful, you should notice things before it gets ugly.

Weak - I agee with you on this one, entirely. Though I mentioned it could be taken if absolutely nessicary, though at a great cost.

Illiterate -  Agreed.

Feeble - Same for weak

High Thirst - Don't you need to sterilize water now? Or is that an upcoming feature? Either way, I just felt like it was more upkeep than it was worth.

 

Restless Sleeper - Yes, I imagen sleeping more helps but you normally sleep around 8 hours anyway and as long as you're not in advance stages of exhuastion, you'll clear it up in that time.

Slow Healer - True on colds but if you manage to mistakenly fall or get a serious wound, its a massive pain in the ass and could cause death if you're caught in a bad situtation.

Slow Learner - I agree on the number but anything that decreases exp, a vital part of the game, isn't worth it, imo.

 

Thin-skinned - Agreed.

Asthmatic - Was just testing this one out further and even with Athletic you run out of breath -very- quickly. Also something I didn't notice before was that it also takes longer to recover. Definately not worth it.

Agoraphobic - I build second story buildings to avoid dealing with zombies. Generally I connect various roof tops and knock out all the stairs after I clear them out. Either way, camping or indoor living is fine for this, as it won't matter that much.

Claustrophobic - I think this is the better of the two, as I often deal with larger groups of zombies outside and the panic can get annoying, fast.

Conspicious - Agreed.

Disorganized - Specifically says containers and with the way its worded, I assume no.

Hearty Appetite - I feel like having light eater is just much more of a benifit. its all about prioritizing and I feel like I have better ones to take in this reguard.

Pacifist - Agreed but you'll always need to fight..

Prone to Illness - I agree, however if you take outdoorsman thats only 2 other things to worry about.

Sleepy Head - I agree, it also robs you of precious daylight AND time that could be used more effectivly.

Unlucky - Definately not. Partialy because of effect and partialy because of low points recieved.

Hemophobic - It really doesn't and I seriously doubt you'll be using it often in MP, too. If people are getting hurt that much, something is wrong.

Weak Stomach -  Agreed

All Thumbs - This one kills me, personally. I can see how many people wouldn't mind, though.

Clumsy - Agreed.

Cowardly - I find myself paniced reguardless in most cases, mostly when dealing with more than a handful of zombies.

Hard of Hearding - Speak up. As I mentioned, deaf is far better in my opinion but if you want less extremes, its perfect for some extra points.

Hypochondriac -  Not sure how true that is but its definately a massive pain in the ass. I wish it were more triggered by things and less at random.

Short Sighted - True enough, however I feel like sight is the most important sense in this game, by far.

 

Slow Reader - I can see how this wouldn't hurt by any means. Even in MP I doubt it'd hurt, since last I played sleepiness wasn't an issue, nor could you speed things up. So I'd part my character on a roof and just read all night while going on reddit.

 

Cat's Eyes - I've been playing with it and if it does increase brightness, its not overly noticable. Though i'm sure you could toy with your gamma and such to make the game brighter, anyway.

 

Dextrous - It isn't a massive amount faster but its so nice for only 2 points.

Fast Reader - Agreed.

Iron Gut - If it were possibly to eat rotten food with a 100% success rate, possibly worth it. Means literally being able to eat anything you find. As it is? Not worth it.

 

Brave - I feel like veteran is a better deal for the price.

Graceful - Agreed but dislike sneaking.

Inconspicious - Same

Eagle Eyed - Agreed, its hard to tell a specific distance in game. Though its costly, either way.

Fast Healer - Agreed, very expensive but a life saver if you're new or prone to danger.

Fit - The speed boost and slower exhaust is the main draw. If its If its the same boost to both, but only 2 fitness instead of 4, its much more worth it than athletics.

Keen Hearing - As mentioned, too high cost and definately don't like the increased noise range.

Adrenaline Junkie - I tested it out a lot with many sprint boosters. You really do run much faster but I don't feel like its entirely worth it, unless you're doing something weird in MP.

Handy - Judging by the way its worded in the wiki, I feel like it increases both by simply giving you a +1 carp (which makes things stronger and faster) However, if it did add a secondary bonus, maybe. It'd have to be worth the cost and even then, I don't have many zombies banging on my walls.

Athletic - +2 more fitness, which is nice. However, if the other effects are identical, its definately not worth the 4 extra points. If it somehow is better, then maybe. It actually makes me wonder if it gives "Faster and Longer" ontop of the +2/4 or if it means "Faster and longer BECAUSE of the +2/4"

 

 

 

 

You only need to sterilize water collected from rain, or the river.  All other water is safe to drink (indoor plumbing and wells).

 

I was mostly saying with athletic that the wiki says they both give plus 4 to fitness.  If Athletic or fit only gives +2 that makes sense.

 

Also, side note, it seems like most of the wiki hasn't been updated regularly, I see content from before build 26 fairly regularly. 

 

 

 

And what for what Moose65 said, he meant the slight vision bubble behind you.  You'll notice that you have some perception behind you, not much, but some.

[EnigmaGrey]

Hard of Hearing lowers you ability to "see" zombies in areas where you can't actually see them (sneaking up behind you, nom) which is represented visually.

[Tyken132]

You only need to sterilize water collected from rain, or the river.  All other water is safe to drink (indoor plumbing and wells).

 

I was mostly saying with athletic that the wiki says they both give plus 4 to fitness.  If Athletic or fit only gives +2 that makes sense.

 

Also, side note, it seems like most of the wiki hasn't been updated regularly, I see content from before build 26 fairly regularly. 

 

 

Still, late game when you have no plumbing or access to a well, sterlizing is a bit of an annoyance.

 

As for Athletic vs Fit,  in game they show as +4/+2, respectivly.

 

I've noticed the wiki is largely out of date and has a lot of issues explaining things. For instance, the other day I was trying to figure out how strong log walls were, verse high level carpentered walls.

[Tyken132]

Hard of Hearing lowers you ability to "see" zombies in areas where you can't actually see them (sneaking up behind you, nom) which is represented visually.

 

That explains it. Hmm. I wouldn't specificly say thats a massive issue, as I tend to do the "Ctrl Spin" even in the middle off combat to make sure nothing is flanking me.

[Moose65]

 

I respect youre dissagreement and submit my own below.....

 

Some things need some further clarification

 

Hard of Hearing - Affects the very small radius of vision behind you, making it even smaller. Combined with panic and you can't see a zombie sneaking up behind you until its already biting. Can be pretty fatal if your already dealing with one in front of you, especially if you were near some trees or an area that you thought was previously cleared.

 

Prone to Illness - Try it out yourself. I've noticed it through playing, and I honestly can't remember where I've dug up the info before. You will get a zombie infection more often from scratches.

 

Short Sighted - You can already zoom your vision off into the distance further than a screen even with short sighted. Definitely free points, and I would consider this before Hard of Hearing.

 

Resilient - Zombie infection, not regular infections (not sure if the 2 traits have even been changed to work with those). Combo with Thick skin and you'll very rarely ever get a zombie infection from anything short of a bite. Its definitely useful to reduce the chance of scratch infection, with thick skin in tandem reducing bites down to scratches.

 

Sleepy Head vs Restless Sleeper - Tried both. Restless Sleeper is by far the worst, since you don't fully recover while sleeping, requiring you to stop to "rest" way too often. Sleepy Head on the other hand basically lets you sleep WHENEVER you want, which is extremely useful. You don't necessarily have to sleep more often, just simply for longer periods.

 

Edit: As a side note, if you really want to increase close-combat survival, Weapon Guard + Thick Skin to reduce chances of Scratches/Bites and Resilient will go a long ways.

[Tyken132]

 

 

I respect youre dissagreement and submit my own below.....

 

Some things need some further clarification

 

Hard of Hearing - Affects the very small radius of vision behind you, making it even smaller. Combined with panic and you can't see a zombie sneaking up behind you until its already biting. Can be pretty fatal if your already dealing with one in front of you, especially if you were near some trees or an area that you thought was previously cleared.

 

Prone to Illness - Try it out yourself. I've noticed it through playing, and I honestly can't remember where I've dug up the info before. You will get a zombie infection more often from scratches.

 

Short Sighted - You can already zoom your vision off into the distance further than a screen even with short sighted. Definitely free points, and I would consider this before Hard of Hearing.

 

Resilient - Zombie infection, not regular infections (not sure if the 2 traits have even been changed to work with those). Combo with Thick skin and you'll very rarely ever get a zombie infection from anything short of a bite. Its definitely useful to reduce the chance of scratch infection, with thick skin in tandem reducing bites down to scratches.

 

Sleepy Head vs Restless Sleeper - Tried both. Restless Sleeper is by far the worst, since you don't fully recover while sleeping, requiring you to stop to "rest" way too often. Sleepy Head on the other hand basically lets you sleep WHENEVER you want, which is extremely useful. You don't necessarily have to sleep more often, just simply for longer periods.

 

Edit: As a side note, if you really want to increase close-combat survival, Weapon Guard + Thick Skin to reduce chances of Scratches/Bites and Resilient will go a long ways.

 

 

 

Hard of Hearing - As I mentioned, provided you're constantly aware off your surroundings (Ctrl+360 spin) you'll be 100% fine, I've done this in the middle of combat dozens of times, even when it wasn't possible for something to sneak up behind me. It is a -great- habit to learn, even with improved hearing/sight. However I can add that to the post to warn others.

 

Prone to Illness - I find that very unlikely, as it mentions just increasing the speed, not the chance. However, I believe I mentioned in another reply that I -have- tested it for a long while. Maybe it was sheer luck/chance or just my ability to avoid damage, but I've never gotten infected from anything short of a bite.

 

Short Sighted - I'll test this out myselff and further edit the original post.

 

Resilient - I already rarely get infefcted, short of a bite. Again, maybe just luck but I had "Prone to Illness" at the time as well.

 

Sleepy Head vs Restless Sleeper - What do you mean you don't "Fully recover", fully recover from sleepiness? I tested it out and it worked just fine. Although I did very limited testing so I can't say for sure. As for Sleepy Head, sleeping longer is the problem. You're essentially wasting time that could be spent doing useful things around your base and such.

[Moose65]

 

Hard of Hearing - As I mentioned, provided you're constantly aware off your surroundings (Ctrl+360 spin) you'll be 100% fine, I've done this in the middle of combat dozens of times, even when it wasn't possible for something to sneak up behind me. It is a -great- habit to learn, even with improved hearing/sight. However I can add that to the post to warn others.

 

Prone to Illness - I find that very unlikely, as it mentions just increasing the speed, not the chance. However, I believe I mentioned in another reply that I -have- tested it for a long while. Maybe it was sheer luck/chance or just my ability to avoid damage, but I've never gotten infected from anything short of a bite.

 

Short Sighted - I'll test this out myselff and further edit the original post.

 

Resilient - I already rarely get infefcted, short of a bite. Again, maybe just luck but I had "Prone to Illness" at the time as well.

 

Sleepy Head vs Restless Sleeper - What do you mean you don't "Fully recover", fully recover from sleepiness? I tested it out and it worked just fine. Although I did very limited testing so I can't say for sure. As for Sleepy Head, sleeping longer is the problem. You're essentially wasting time that could be spent doing useful things around your base and such.

 

 

Hard of Hearing - Spinning around when your dealing with 3 or 4 zombies in front of you doesn't seem like a good idea, I already spin around when traveling, but that just seems like it'll get you bitten when your trying to shove them away. Dunno, if it works for you that's fine, but I prefer to keep my small bubble of vision from behind.

 

Prone to Illness/Resilient - Actually Prone to Illness and Resilient both mention disease, which does include "zombie infection", and both of these traits existed before "regular infections" were around. Also, I'm finding it very unlikely that you've not gotten zombie infections from scratches since its about a base 25% chance before prone to illness or resilient, so either you've got extreme RNG luck, or you've not been paying attention.

 

Restless Sleeper/Sleepy Head - As far as restless sleeper, it won't fully recover your stamina. Yeah, you can get rid of your tiredness, but you'll still have some exhaustion, even if the moodle isn't present. It was far too annoying for me to bother with since I would have to rest shortly after waking up and doing any kind of exhausting work in game. If you don't have that problem, then its all good, but a lot of people do prefer restless sleeper since you can go to sleep at about any time for 8 hrs straight, making it easy to setup a sleep cycle if you've gotten it out of whack. Without Restless Sleeper, you don't have as much control, and have to be tired enough to actually sleep 8~10 hours.

[Tyken132]

Hard of Hearing - Spinning around when your dealing with 3 or 4 zombies in front of you doesn't seem like a good idea, I already spin around when traveling, but that just seems like it'll get you bitten when your trying to shove them away. Dunno, if it works for you that's fine, but I prefer to keep my small bubble of vision from behind.

 

Prone to Illness/Resilient - Actually Prone to Illness and Resilient both mention disease, which does include "zombie infection", and both of these traits existed before "regular infections" were around. Also, I'm finding it very unlikely that you've not gotten zombie infections from scratches since its about a base 25% chance before prone to illness or resilient, so either you've got extreme RNG luck, or you've not been paying attention.

 

Restless Sleeper/Sleepy Head - As far as restless sleeper, it won't fully recover your stamina. Yeah, you can get rid of your tiredness, but you'll still have some exhaustion, even if the moodle isn't present. It was far too annoying for me to bother with since I would have to rest shortly after waking up and doing any kind of exhausting work in game. If you don't have that problem, then its all good, but a lot of people do prefer restless sleeper since you can go to sleep at about any time for 8 hrs straight, making it easy to setup a sleep cycle if you've gotten it out of whack. Without Restless Sleeper, you don't have as much control, and have to be tired enough to actually sleep 8~10 hours.

 

 

Well you don't spin around when they're right next to you or if one is sprinting to you. Either way, we can agree to dissagree on that reguard.

 

As for prone to illness, I had lucky as well. No idea if that helps but popular opinion says yes. I'm also quiet good at avoiding situations where I'll even get scratched. That play thought I mentioned lasted about a year.

 

Restless sleeper - Really? huh, that does seem -really- lame and makes no direct mention of stamina. I toyed around with it briefly but I thought the asthma trait was not letting me recover. That's extreme teir bad.

[Zorak]

Well I must say most of you are wrong for one simple reason, It depends on what mod you are playing. All traits have different value depends if your playing single player or multiplayer, normal loot or very rare loot etc.

 

First example: High Thirst: if you spawn in WP that’s not a problem coz of the river. In Mould its harder to play with it but then if you’re a carpenter you can build water collectors and that trait will be free points for you.

 

Unemployed is not that great, you wont be able to get that 125% xp bonuses just from traits, if you want to specialize you cant be unemployed.

 

Weak/obese etc are not that bad if your part of a group in MP server. If you’re a group farmer, carpenter or fisherman you can take those traits without much trouble.

 

Illiterate is good choice if you want to make runner / fighter / sneaky class. There are no books related to those skills so being illiterate don’t harm you in any way.

 

Light eater / low thirst are good for old MP servers.

 

Bad luck is not so terrible if your not the one that loots ( again MP example)

 

Maintenance skills are way more valuable on low loot servers, your weapons will last longer and perhaps you will find a new one before the old one brakes.

 

I can make examples like those for next 2 pages but the main thing is: it ALL DEPENDS.

There is no cookie cutter build.

[Moose65]

Well I must say most of you are wrong for one simple reason, It depends on what mod you are playing. All traits have different value depends if your playing single player or multiplayer, normal loot or very rare loot etc.

 

First example: High Thirst: if you spawn in WP that’s not a problem coz of the river. In Mould its harder to play with it but then if you’re a carpenter you can build water collectors and that trait will be free points for you.

 

Unemployed is not that great, you wont be able to get that 125% xp bonuses just from traits, if you want to specialize you cant be unemployed.

 

Weak/obese etc are not that bad if your part of a group in MP server. If you’re a group farmer, carpenter or fisherman you can take those traits without much trouble.

 

Illiterate is good choice if you want to make runner / fighter / sneaky class. There are no books related to those skills so being illiterate don’t harm you in any way.

 

Light eater / low thirst are good for old MP servers.

 

Bad luck is not so terrible if your not the one that loots ( again MP example)

 

Maintenance skills are way more valuable on low loot servers, your weapons will last longer and perhaps you will find a new one before the old one brakes.

 

I can make examples like those for next 2 pages but the main thing is: it ALL DEPENDS.

There is no cookie cutter build.

 

Actually, I make it a point to separate a trait if the issue is SP/MP. Even then, some of those arguments are debatable.

 

High Thirst - Always free points, doesn't matter where you start. Water is simply too easy to collect, and you can stockpile enough to get you by until you have rain collectors even in Muldraguh.

 

Luck also affects repair rolls, which nobody has bothered to mention yet, so thats another strike against unlucky or a point to pick lucky.

 

Light Eater/Low thirst is always useless. Foraging/Fishing and rivers/lakes/wells will take care of all of your needs.

 

Pretty much most of your arguments are only in respect to MP, and I believe the developers are mainly focused on getting it balanced for single player Survival (with adjustments made for special cases in MP) at the moment.

 

There may not be exact cookie cutter builds, but there are traits that you would clearly always avoid or take if your an experienced player, unless you are looking to raise the difficulty.

[Moose65]

 

As for prone to illness, I had lucky as well. No idea if that helps but popular opinion says yes. I'm also quiet good at avoiding situations where I'll even get scratched. That play thought I mentioned lasted about a year.

 

I've heard it said that lucky does and doesn't affect chance to be bitten/scratched or infection rate, but my main point is you value thick skin pretty high, when resilient is basically another safeguard for a cheaper point value that works well with Thick Skin.

 

Like I said, you've been extremely lucky to not get infected with Prone to Illness with scratches. During my play throughs, the infection chance was definitely noticeable with scratches when I took Prone to Illness, and then vice versa with Resilient. Anything to lower the RNG of something that can end a play through is good IMO, and even these safeguards can fail. I remember one play through in particular where I had Thick Skin, Resilient, and Self-Defense Class, and the very first scratch that I got ended up causing zombification.

 

RNG gonna RNG, having ways to reduce it is always a plus IMO.

[Tyken132]

I've heard it said that lucky does and doesn't affect chance to be bitten/scratched or infection rate, but my main point is you value thick skin pretty high, when resilient is basically another safeguard for a cheaper point value that works well with Thick Skin.

Like I said, you've been extremely lucky to not get infected with Prone to Illness with scratches. During my play throughs, the infection chance was definitely noticeable with scratches when I took Prone to Illness, and then vice versa with Resilient. Anything to lower the RNG of something that can end a play through is good IMO, and even these safeguards can fail. I remember one play through in particular where I had Thick Skin, Resilient, and Self-Defense Class, and the very first scratch that I got ended up causing zombification.

 

RNG gonna RNG, having ways to reduce it is always a plus IMO.

 

 

 

Not infection rate, just reduces your chance or even being hit. However I see your point. I still will argue slightly against it because thick skin helps prevent getting scratched in the first place, while resilient -may- help if you are. Though I can see it being useful, reguardless. Its also why I argue that traditional traits are far better than "hobby" traits, as you can raise them over time (Granted, painfully long time) However, you can't get the effects of potentially life saving/changing traits.

 

Also, are you 100% sure hobby skills give an exp bonus to them as well? I can't find any offical sources that say they do.

[Moose65]

 

Not infection rate, just reduces your chance or even being hit. However I see your point. I still will argue slightly against it because thick skin helps prevent getting scratched in the first place, while resilient -may- help if you are. Though I can see it being useful, reguardless. Its also why I argue that traditional traits are far better than "hobby" traits, as you can raise them over time (Granted, painfully long time) However, you can't get the effects of potentially life saving/changing traits.

 

 

 

Also, are you 100% sure hobby skills give an exp bonus to them as well? I can't find any offical sources that say they do.

 

 

Oh I definitely agree that Thick Skin is better than Resilient, but to be fair, you could say the same thing about thick skin, that it may fail to roll a bite down to a scratch. Their valued fairly IMO, and are even better when stacked.

 

As far as the hobby skills, you can test this yourself in game. It should list your XP boost at character creation, as well as in-game when you hover over the skill (although I believe at one point the developers didn't like the idea of hobbies stacking with professions/hobbies, so this may change in the future).

[Tyken132]

Oh I definitely agree that Thick Skin is better than Resilient, but to be fair, you could say the same thing about thick skin, that it may fail to roll a bite down to a scratch. Their valued fairly IMO, and are even better when stacked.

 

As far as the hobby skills, you can test this yourself in game. It should list your XP boost at character creation, as well as in-game when you hover over the skill (although I believe at one point the developers didn't like the idea of hobbies stacking with professions/hobbies, so this may change in the future).

 

 

 

So, I'm a bit curious now that we've discussed these traits a bit. Whats your ideal build look like and why did you chos ethe one you did?

[Migoxiss]

I always take the athletic trait. For me its THE must-have trait (alongside with strong). Im not a very stealthy player so strong and athletic are the base of my build. Most of the time I dont even have space for another traits thanks to having to balancing My negative Traits are then something like restless sleeper etc.

[Moose65]

 

So, I'm a bit curious now that we've discussed these traits a bit. Whats your ideal build look like and why did you chos ethe one you did?

 

 

Depends on what I'm doing, but as far as Core positive traits its almost always: Thick Skin, Resilient, Lucky, Outdoorsmen, Fast Learner, Self-Defense Class (last one gets left out if I'm short of points).

 

Negatives I almost always take: Clumsy, Conspicuous, Cowardly, Disorganized, Hearty Appetite, Hemophobic, High Thirst, Short Sighted, Sleepy Head, Slow Reader, Weak Stomach

 

Rest of my pros depends on my build I'm aiming for. Other Negatives I take if I'm desperate for points, in order of least worst to worst,  All Thumbs, Hard of Hearing, Restless Sleeper, Slow Healer (Last two are practically never taken).

 

Edit: I guess the thing I value the most is survival VS Zombies, which is why my core is setup like that.

[Sharpened Pata]

Also, are you 100% sure hobby skills give an exp bonus to them as well? I can't find any offical sources that say they do.

 

 

Devs are pretty official, no?  The quote below is from here.

 

Professions now often give skill points, and these tie in directly to the learning speed in those skills as well as the starting skill level.

 

 

As for my next builds, I have two in mind:

 

Job: Park Ranger (+2 foraging and trapping, good for getting food after the power goes out, and +1 carpentry, so I can learn it at a decent pace.)

 

Current trait total is -4

 

Neg traits: Clumsy (+2), Conspicuous (+4), Cowardly (+2), Disorganized (+4), Hearty Eater (+4, the foraging should be able to balance it out.  As it is, I basically eat 3 berries a day.  I'm a bit worried about winter, though), Hemophobic (+3), High Thirst (+6, I'll be going for the farm as soon as possible, so shouldn't be a huge deal.), Sleepy head (+4), Slow reader (+2), and Weak Stomach (+3)

 

Current total is 30

 

Pro traits:  Dextrous (-2) Fit (-6), strong (-10), Thick Skinned (-6), lucky (-4), Outsdoorman (-2)

 

With this build, I'll have to fight every zombie I come across, or run, but I'll be equipped to do so.  Plus, I'll be able to go outside in the rain, a nice plus.

[Tyken132]

Ok, I've been toying around with occupations and traits more.

 

Firstly, holy crap is it easier to level up skills with occupation/trait skills. Might actually be worth it, just from the time you save. Of course, only for the most primary skills you plan to use. For me its Gardening and Carpentry.

 

Hearty Eater and High thirst aren't as bad as I thought, no idea what its like late game, though. However, High thirst can hit you hard if the water goes out too quickly.

 

I did notice one thing, however. I'm not sure if its because I never noticed before or because of sleepyhead. When I get any form of exhaustion it doesn't seem to go away without resting in a bed (As opposed to just resting while standing for a bit)

 

Also need some more insight on fast learner. It doesn't seem to do much unless you already have a decent bonus to a skillup, can I get confirmation on how good it really is?