Jump to content
silents429

Latest Mondoid on "tripping"

Recommended Posts

Easy way to make this enjoyable for everyone would be to just make it extremely easily modable. Make it as simple as deleting a line of code, and Boom!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the mechanic seems like its trying to solve a problem that doesnt exist. add to the suspense of a threatening situation? i think we can all agree that project zomboid already has that in spades. seems like the only thing it would do is add the potential of death without any fault of the player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3)   What about a dizzy moodle? Lets face it; anyone who survives for more than a few days in this game spends alot of time with the 'sneak/charge' button held down and spinning around scanning their surroundings. That much spinning would cause havoc on our sense of balance with the fluid in our inner ears and would cause spatial disorientation/dizziness. Tripping while dizzy makes a lot of sense to me. I challenge anyone to go outside with a baseball bat cocked and ready to swing, spin around in circles while walking in a general direction, and see what happens. Please set up a video camera first though and share it on YouTube, cause I bet it is going to be good for a laugh :)

 

Except in the real world we don't spin around to see what's behind us, we just turn our head. There's no "turn your head to look" mechanic in PZ so we have to spin around, it's not very realistic at all but it's what we have to work with.

 

And for all the people saying "reserve judgement until it's implimented" well I can sorta agree with this and normally I'd be saying the same thing, but when the details posted about it make it sound like it's just something that will undoubtedly get people screwed by the RNG it's just not cool.

 

Having the RNG determine whether you find an axe on that zombie you just killed? That's perfectly fine.

 

Having the RNG decide whether that character you've spent a real month building up and aren't doing anything differently with than you have a hundred times dies? Not so fine.

 

If we get a new clumsy trait that adds the element of falling over randomly and the current clumsy trait gets renamed to something like "loud" then that's all good. People who want to experience this can do so while the rest of us who don't think potentially dying because the RNG decided to shaft us is fun can avoid it by not taking that trait.

 

 

 

Of course, if it works in an entirely different way than the mondoid blurb makes it sound like then I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't see someone losing a high level character to simple tripping. First because if you get to a high level it means you know how to deal with the tripping mechanics and adapt, and second because if you're character is high level, you can spend a few points in nimble, which should lower the probability to trip considerably.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really don't see someone losing a high level character to simple tripping. First because if you get to a high level it means you know how to deal with the tripping mechanics and adapt, and second because if you're character is high level, you can spend a few points in nimble, which should lower the probability to trip considerably.

 

Because it only takes once to kill you.

 

Open a bathroom door. There's a zombie, you start to step back... trip. Die. Period.

 

You did absolutely nothing wrong in this situation. You were prepared and ready for the zombie. You were out, looting (which is something the devs are trying to encourage, not discourage). And yet, zombie pops up and you panic (because that's what happens when zombies pop up at close range) and you trip. Utterly out of your control whether you're a 100 skillpoint character or a 1 skillpoint character. That's a bad mechanic.

 

Maybe it won't be introduced this way, but seriously- there's very, very few situations in hardcore, permadeath games where having a random chance of utterly losing control of character is a good game mechanic. As I've said before, we'll have to see how it plays out before making any judgements, but at the end of the day it is what it is.

 

 

Edit: And not to belabor the point or browbeat you specifically, but if it literally poses no threat to the player then Silents is right and it's a bad mechanic. If it does pose a threat to the player, then it's Artificial Difficulty and also bad. That's why we're concerned; just from first glance it appears to be a lose-lose situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tripping IMO would be unrealistically portrayed if its just based on panic and a trait.

Even at max panic there should be like a 5% change to trip at top speed.

 

Once NPC's are implemented we'll have more die to tripping than the actual fighting. Like if the floor was made of glass.

I'm not opposed to players tripping, but terrain should have more to do with it than the emotional state unless drunk or incap'd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I really don't see someone losing a high level character to simple tripping. First because if you get to a high level it means you know how to deal with the tripping mechanics and adapt, and second because if you're character is high level, you can spend a few points in nimble, which should lower the probability to trip considerably.

 

Because it only takes once to kill you.

 

Open a bathroom door. There's a zombie, you start to step back... trip. Die. Period.

 

You did absolutely nothing wrong in this situation. You were prepared and ready for the zombie. You were out, looting (which is something the devs are trying to encourage, not discourage). And yet, zombie pops up and you panic (because that's what happens when zombies pop up at close range) and you trip. Utterly out of your control whether you're a 100 skillpoint character or a 1 skillpoint character. That's a bad mechanic.

 

Maybe it won't be introduced this way, but seriously- there's very, very few situations in hardcore, permadeath games where having a random chance of utterly losing control of character is a good game mechanic. As I've said before, we'll have to see how it plays out before making any judgements, but at the end of the day it is what it is.

 

 

Edit: And not to belabor the point or browbeat you specifically, but if it literally poses no threat to the player then Silents is right and it's a bad mechanic. If it does pose a threat to the player, then it's Artificial Difficulty and also bad. That's why we're concerned; just from first glance it appears to be a lose-lose situation.

 

Don't worry I don't feel browbeaten It's all legit discussion and I understand you guys' point ^^

Maybe the introduction of different stances that's been discussed in other threads could impact tripping ? Like a combat or sneaking stance could mean the player is ready to fight or more careful and pay more attention to where he puts his/her feet and therefore pretty much unable to trip.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be happier with that than random chance in general for sure.

 

I'd be perfectly happy with tripping after vaulting a fence at full speed- makes perfect sense and is an active choice by the player to take a risk.

 

As previously mentioned, I'd be fine with zombies tripping you if they got a hand on you while running- again, active choice/mistake by the player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd think cumulative effects would work fine imo. Tired, exhausted, poor nimble skill, extreme panic and sprinting, while not in a combat stance. You could even implement a charge for the stability.

So this way there would be an active choice: open bathroom door, get to a combat stance, see zombie, run away = no tripping as you're sure footed when you start running.

Against: open door, walk in (or run), see zombie, run (turn quickly), have a chance of tripping determined on exhaustion, tiredness, panic and skills.

Also I'm for the rathlord's suggestion of running through hordes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Adding chance to trip to Clumsy - Good. No longer the free points that it currently is.

 

Adding chance to randomly trip while panic'd - Now everyone plays as a Veteran.

 

100% against it being added to panic (even though panic is a pretty weak mechanic atm), as you just pigeon-hole everyone into selecting the Veteran.

 

But if it IS added to clumsy, please make it clear in the tooltip about the chance to trip.

 

Edit Edit: Now, if you want to make it part of a CONDITION of controllable and UN-controllable (panic) moodles, such as tripping has a chance to occur when Tired + Panic'd + Exhausted, I would be all for it (you made the choice to push your character past his limits). I could see this being difficult to implement in multi-player though because of the lack of tiredness. Even then though, your gonna push characters towards playing Veteran, especially if panic gets some more lovin' like it needs.

 

Also, we definitely need the ability to pass out soon to make being tired a real threat. Can zombies even kill you while your asleep? I don't think they can yet but we definitely need that soon too :D

 

Also, River Zombies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If they really wanted to be realistic, walking backwards would have a higher trip possibility than jumping over a fence.  Walking/running backwards while panicked from a group of zombies (kiting) would be a death sentence. Isn't that what happens in all horror movies?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If they really wanted to be realistic, walking backwards would have a higher trip possibility than jumping over a fence.  Walking/running backwards while panicked from a group of zombies (kiting) would be a death sentence. Isn't that what happens in all horror movies?

I am pretty positive I made a point twice now to say

Horror Movies =/= Real Life

Project Zomboid is based to be as realistic as possible, it does not matter what happens on TV. A normal person has no issues running, doesn't forget how to walk properly, and doesn't fall over flat ground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Horror Movies =/= Real Life

Project Zomboid is based to be as realistic as possible, it does not matter what happens on TV. A normal person has no issues running, doesn't forget how to walk properly, and doesn't fall over flat ground.

But also Real Life =/= Zomboid. It's more like Real Life ≈ Zomboid.

 

Although the game is based to be as realistic as possible there can, have and will be gameplay concessions to that. And that's also half of the beauty of games.

 

I am pretty positive I made a point twice now to say

Let's not get too focused on our own opinions and let's have others say what they will. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I recall laughing at the incapabilities of strangers stumbling several times through out my life.  When not paying attention to where I'm placing my feet; even walking forward; there were moments (like a section of concrete on the sidewalk that is an inch taller than the other) where I've stumbled... not necessarily tripped and fell but had a temporary imbalance.  I've fell when running to catch a football only to have stepped on a sprinkler head and twist my ankle.  Watch a few episodes of Americas Funniest Home Videos, sometimes people fall from what appears to be no reason at all.  Sometimes the most capable people have misfortunate moments, which you can see by googling 'sports or gymnastics fails'. 

 When imagining a hypothetical situation of how balanced we would be if we were actually really dealing with a sudden zombie looming before us, most would like to assume they'd be that infaluable badass.  Most would not be.  

In real life, people don't intend to trip... they don't control their falling down.  It happens unexpectedly and can happen at the most inappropriate times. 

 

Personally, I would enjoy something like tripping.  Though there should be more combat mechanics added for prone fighting, like kicking and wrestling off unwated zombies.  (Would be pretty f'n cool to fall back on the ground, have a zombie fall on top of you... Then successfully wrestle the zombie so you're on top and stab a knife through it's skull.  Get back up on your feet and spin around to one stab kill the next closest approaching zombie before preparing to make another escape from the hoard.)  or (You open a door and a zombie lunges instantly, you step back and fall on your ass... So you kick and push the zombie back into the room it came, regain your footing to either shut the door and gtfo of there or ready your weapon as it lunges a second time.)

 

I'm all for adding shock value through a series of misfortunate events caused by a players lack of good judgement.  So long as you can fight for your life while in a prone position.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm all for adding shock value through a series of misfortunate events caused by a players lack of good judgement.

 

So is everyone else. The problem is, what you described there had nothing to do with anyone's judgement and everything to do with the RNG.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about just letting the devs do their thing, add whatever they want to add and then see if it's completely broken? The game IS in Early Access, if there is ever a time to put in questionable features it is now. We'll just give feedback.

I will admit though, tripping and getting bit would be extremely cheap way to die. That being said, PZ is incapable of killing me as-is unless I go stupid and I got better at that too, my recent berserker fit left me without a scratch with about 50 dead zombies at my feet and I'm using my Weapon Nerf mod.

I can see tripping working but only if the player puts himself in a position where it can happen, ex. get shitfaced and go killing zombies. Or walking back, swinging his baseball bat while ultra panicked, trying to run while severely exhausted or tired.

Basically, I'm good with it as long as it is an effect of my ignorance and my inability to take care of my character. Like Being tired really has zero gameplay effects atm but I always sleep anyway, I do want my character to pass out, it will be my own fault for getting lost in the woods without being prepared, I want consequences for my inactions.

I want an Incentive to give a crap about my character rather than ignoring 75% of all moodles because I can. Tripping, Passing Out, it all can work very, very nicely if you ask me, if implemented correctly. Let's not hate a feature we have not even seen yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I'm all for adding shock value through a series of misfortunate events caused by a players lack of good judgement.

 

So is everyone else. The problem is, what you described there had nothing to do with anyone's judgement and everything to do with the RNG.

 

 

If we were to learn that walking large distances backwards, being highly paniced and running, spinning your character back and forth to look around while running, running while over loaded, or drunk, or all of the above combined could cause RNG to implement an occasionally trip, then it seems to me it'd be a lack of good judgement to choose to do those things in the moments that you shouldn't risk it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If we were to learn that walking large distances backwards, being highly paniced and running, spinning your character back and forth to look around while running, running while over loaded, or drunk, or all of the above combined could cause RNG to implement an occasionally trip, then it seems to me it'd be a lack of good judgement to choose to do those things in the moments that you shouldn't risk it.

 

The game would become pretty impossible and unfun if moving backwards and looking around quickly were punished.

It's one thing to trip while your character is wasted. It's another to trip just because you back away from zombies (to fight or otherwise) or look around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If we were to learn that walking large distances backwards, being highly paniced and running, spinning your character back and forth to look around while running, running while over loaded, or drunk, or all of the above combined could cause RNG to implement an occasionally trip, then it seems to me it'd be a lack of good judgement to choose to do those things in the moments that you shouldn't risk it.

 

 

Might as well just take walking backwards out of the game, then. Punishing a player for using a normal function of their character is crappy.

 

As has been said before, you can't turn the character's head in the game, that's why we have to spin. It'd be incredibly arbitrary to punish a player for this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mentioned walking "large distances" backward and looking around "while" running. 

 

A few steps back here and there, and stopping to scan your surroundings shouldn't cause you to trip, I agree.

 

Personally, as is now, I just walk around zombies with no worry.  I run a bit, turn around, walk backwards and swing at the closest, then walk around, run a bit, turn around to walk backwards and swing at the closest... repeat until X number of zombies are far too easily terminated.   Put something in that messes up my equation, and I'm no longer capable to dropping an infinitly large hoard or must question my actions if I attempt to do so. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

If we were to learn that walking large distances backwards, being highly paniced and running, spinning your character back and forth to look around while running, running while over loaded, or drunk, or all of the above combined could cause RNG to implement an occasionally trip, then it seems to me it'd be a lack of good judgement to choose to do those things in the moments that you shouldn't risk it.

 

 

Might as well just take walking backwards out of the game, then. Punishing a player for using a normal function of their character is crappy.

 

As has been said before, you can't turn the character's head in the game, that's why we have to spin. It'd be incredibly arbitrary to punish a player for this.

 

I'd say the tripping should just be something like falling to your knee, and immediatly getting back up, not something like completely falling down.

Also, maybe only on very high panic levels, and when you are sprinting? Doesn't really make much sense if someone trips while walking, even if it's backwards. (especially considering that to walk backwards, the player has to enter a ''aiming'' state that slows down his speed)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...