I'd like to talk about axes.

[Barry_Ravepants]

Axes are definitely the best all out melee weapon in the game, and they are hard to acquire and harder to keep maintained, with repairs being a slippery slope that renders an axe useless within about 10 repairs. You can keep repairing it but you have diminishing returns where the amount of wood glue required to fix it a small amount makes it not very worthwhile.

 

What I would like to see, is rebuildable axes.

In real life, the axe handle would deteriorate and get chewed out, but the axe head should remain servicable forever.

 

So if an item were added, maybe just a spawn but with a high enough carpentry skill could be crafted. Axe handles. On their own they could be used as a blunt weapon, and with the addition of an axe head, become an axe. That way when you break an axe, you could either repair the axe as normal if you don't have another handle, or add a new handle which would bring the axe back up to 100% servicability.

 

You could also make the axe head deteriorate or 'blunten' over time, which would reduce damage, and require sharpening using a grindstone (another item, possibly crafted by foraging a rock? or ingame spawn), The higher your blade maintenance skill, the sharper you can make your axe, increasing its damage.

 

I'd love to see this I think it would add another dimension of reality to the game, and make axes even more awesome.

[Lucius_5]

 Appriciate ur idea, esp sharpening with grindstones.

Actually, I think killing zombies with an axe just like hitting fragile stones when a Z-apocalypse's been some while ( well harder for a first outburst ), and a axe head must be more durable than a handle unless it's metal as well, so sharpening the head ( other sharpweapons as well  ) or replace the broken handle would be better repairing ways for axes.

 

Well, I used to use them to cut down trees with a rare root rarity, insteadof killing zombies.

 

BTW u can also create a stoneaxe ingame, just tell u btw.

[Aurex]

I agree, a quality axe head could last... almost indefinitely. One should be able to just take the head off as soon as the handle breaks, then use a saw, a couple of nails and a plank to build a new one. Assuming one has enough skill, that's it. A non-skilled carpenter could always use a simple tree branch, obtaining a very easy to break but still deadly weapon using an existing head.

[MrZombifiedGamer]

People are already complaining about the game being to easy and you can already make an axe in game. Not sure about this one.

[Sanctus]

Axes are already overpowered.  Have you ever tried swinging an axe baseball style like you do in the game?  I have and it sucks, you can't get enough momentum to actually be very dangerous.  The axe is too heavy for swinging at head height.  And you should tire out after only 3-4 swings at a zombie.  It would only be really effective if you were swinging from top to bottom like you do when the zombie is on the ground.  And axes right now go through multiple zombie which doesn't make a ton of sense.

[Barry_Ravepants]

The things that people complain about are not very interesting, as far as I can tell, whining about games in Beta release is a popular pastime.

 

Also the stone axe you can make, is not very satisfying.

 

I wasn't really suggesting to make the axe more powerful, in fact, it would be quite the opposite, with the axe only being at full power (what it is now) if it is completely sharpened which requires a high blade maintenance skill. As the axe blade dulls it would gradually become less effective.

 

I can't say I have used an axe to defend myself against zombies before personally, but if I did, I would definitely be using broad strokes. 

[Kajin]

I'd take an overall hit to the ability of the axe to be an effective combat weapon if we could get a way to make a new axe using a renewable axe head. Maybe keep the damage high but have it tire you out more like a sledgehammer does? That seems like a fair balance.

[Barry_Ravepants]

I'd take an overall hit to the ability of the axe to be an effective combat weapon if we could get a way to make a new axe using a renewable axe head. Maybe keep the damage high but have it tire you out more like a sledgehammer does? That seems like a fair balance.

Sledge hammers are much *much* heavier and harder to wield than a fire axe IRL. I'm not the fittest guy in the world but I can swing an axe for a good while chopping wood without getting overly tired, driving in truck axles with a sledge hammer = different story.

I also think the idea that an axe is overpowered is not very well thought out. An axe is, and should be a devastating weapon. Nobody is going to take multiple blows to the head from an axe and still stand, I don't care how hard they think they are, and zombies are squishy.

[hrot]

Well i think problem lies with repairing axes. Now you repair it with some kind of glue which is stupid and not realistic.
I'm all for sharpening axes with grindstones when you need to use it from time to time or  damage will be lower and lower.
I don't agree with axe handle though. It's very hard to damage it when using. It can last very very very long.
So i would stay only with maintaining axe with grindstone and that's all.
Axes are very durable tools and keep in mind that now in game we have axes used by firefighters so they are even more durable.
 
Lovely reminder from me: game have to be hard but not at cost of realism because it would be just stupid and lazy design.
It's frustrating when something so much durable is destroyed now in PZ after chopping like 10 trees.
Similar thing with baseball bat but that's thing for another topic though.

[Sanctus]

 

I'd take an overall hit to the ability of the axe to be an effective combat weapon if we could get a way to make a new axe using a renewable axe head. Maybe keep the damage high but have it tire you out more like a sledgehammer does? That seems like a fair balance.

Sledge hammers are much *much* heavier and harder to wield than a fire axe IRL. I'm not the fittest guy in the world but I can swing an axe for a good while chopping wood without getting overly tired, driving in truck axles with a sledge hammer = different story.

I also think the idea that an axe is overpowered is not very well thought out. An axe is, and should be a devastating weapon. Nobody is going to take multiple blows to the head from an axe and still stand, I don't care how hard they think they are, and zombies are squishy.

 

Try to swing an axe at the level a human head would be at effectively.  Its not easy and even lumberjacks swing near the bottom of the tree because the axe is simply too heavy to get any effect speed in the swing at that height.  Axes should be swung differently, using more stamina but having higher damage and only able to kill one zombie at a time. 

[Kajin]

 

I'd take an overall hit to the ability of the axe to be an effective combat weapon if we could get a way to make a new axe using a renewable axe head. Maybe keep the damage high but have it tire you out more like a sledgehammer does? That seems like a fair balance.

Sledge hammers are much *much* heavier and harder to wield than a fire axe IRL. I'm not the fittest guy in the world but I can swing an axe for a good while chopping wood without getting overly tired, driving in truck axles with a sledge hammer = different story.

I also think the idea that an axe is overpowered is not very well thought out. An axe is, and should be a devastating weapon. Nobody is going to take multiple blows to the head from an axe and still stand, I don't care how hard they think they are, and zombies are squishy.

 

I didn't say "as much" as a sledgehammer does. I said "more like". As in similar to. I'd call complete bullshit if the axe tired you out just as much as a sledgehammer. But I still think it could stand to use more energy to effectively wield an axe, balancing out the raw damage potential by making it more tiring to use. This would stand as an excellent counter balance towards making axe heads reusable after the weapon breaks.

[Barry_Ravepants]

loudboomaker: Sure, I don't think fire axes are really that heavy, about 3kg? (6lb if you prefer) but this thread is actually less about the way lumberjacks swing axes, and more about the real world ability to replace an axe handle and keep the axe head sharp.

 

Kajin: However you think the balance would need to work, I think it's a worthy addition.

 

Hrot: I thought your post was blank until I highlighted the text, so here is my late reply. IMO the axe wears out very quickly, which is Ok, I figure it's set that way for balance. I agree that the current way of repairing it with woodglue is totally unrealistic. I like the idea of the addition of axe handles, because a) they are common IRL, found in any hardware store. b) could be a good standalone blunt weapon c) would add a degree of realism to axe repair.

They could also be crafted. I would only like to see this if it required a very high carpentry skill to accomplish, as crafting an axe handle would be difficult IRL.

 

I dislike that axes become unusable when broken and repaired with glue 10 times, I think it's unrealistic and it irks me.

[Sanctus]

loudboomaker: Sure, I don't think fire axes are really that heavy, about 3kg? (6lb if you prefer) but this thread is actually less about the way lumberjacks swing axes, and more about the real world ability to replace an axe handle and keep the axe head sharp.

 

Kajin: However you think the balance would need to work, I think it's a worthy addition.

This is the truth I get off-topic easily.  Axe heads should be able to be replaced, but they would need something to bind the head to the new handle.  I'm not sure how crowbars break at all.

[Barry_Ravepants]

 

loudboomaker: Sure, I don't think fire axes are really that heavy, about 3kg? (6lb if you prefer) but this thread is actually less about the way lumberjacks swing axes, and more about the real world ability to replace an axe handle and keep the axe head sharp.

 

Kajin: However you think the balance would need to work, I think it's a worthy addition.

This is the truth I get off-topic easily.  Axe heads should be able to be replaced, but they would need something to bind the head to the new handle.  I'm not sure how crowbars break at all.

 

Usually you simply drive a wooden wedge into the split at the top of the handle to bind it.

[King jjwpenguin]

I rarely use the ax and when i do its not normally used as a weapon. Still it breaks quiet often and finding one takes ages. I had to search both cities (Before you could make them) To find a single ax! Then it broke a few trees later becoming almost pointless since we had very little things to repair it with. It needs a bit more durability. And i like the idea for grindstones.

[thePrimarch]

I think the grindstone is a really good idea--or really, anything that allows the axe to be repaired more often. I like the idea of the axe having a set lifespan; its a very useful tool and weapon, and thus is an expensive and in-demand item. 

 

However, both wood glue and axes are hard to find, thus making the axe a limited commodity, and requiring exploration in order to make use of it.

 

This works... except it also limits the amount of building the player can conduct, as the axe is the primary method for getting wood. If you're playing on a server without respawning loot, finding axes or woodglue can be a demanding task, and can seriously limit your ability to actually complete construction.

 

The grindstone is a good idea. What might also work is the ability to make woodglue--making axe management slightly more economy-based than luck based, though still forcing the players to rely on exploration in order to find replacement axes fairly regularly. It also can set the axe in as a late-tier weapon, relying on late-tier player production capabilities.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Eh, I've busted my share of axe handles splitting wood by misjudging my swing and hitting the handle instead of the head, so it's not as hard as people think to ruin an axe handle. The head though, that's another story entirely, they really are nearly indestructible and just need occasional sharpening to keep them in working order. Fiberglass or plastic handles are also a different thing, a plastic handle with a fiberglass core is nigh unbreakable unless you actively try to and even then it's hard to do.

 

But don't forget that axes can occasionally be found on Zombies, so there is essentially an unlimited supply of them provided you check your kills and don't just pass them by like a lot of people do. I've noticed Zombies drop them far more often with the Lucky trait, I've run several Lucky characters and they always find more Axes than they can use just by killing Zombies.

[emiliano0086]

I agree that the player should be able to craft axe handlers, but as other comunity people said it´s quite unfair because they would become indestructible in some way, also agree that the axe head should be sharpenable but then again, it makes the item indestructible. So, i think to balance things we should get exhausted faster and we could hit one single target. I also think that the axe handler would have the option to get cut in the middle so we get a hatchet, it´s lighter and a one handed so we don´t exhaust to fast but you still can hit a single target.

[BetaSpectre]

Realism > Difficulty

This game is about survival, not how hard you can die.

 

Axe Heads IMO should blunt as time goes on, the Handle should outlast its sharpness IMO or pretty close to it.

And the Head decreases in mass each time you sharpen it.

 

Making it an effective long term weapon that requires constant maintenance.

 

An endgame character IMO ought to be able to have an indefinite supply of tools and resources given the right location, skill, and knowledge. Hence win at survival. To make the game do otherwise is to simply constrict the player to lose. 

[GrandPunkRailroad]

Realism > Difficulty

This game is about survival, not how hard you can die.

I think I disagree with the direction of this idea. It is a game, as you said. And I think it's more of an adventure game than a simulation. I play, as SomeRandomGuy often does, with the Lucky trait. So I always have abundant axes. I'm not against sharpening axe heads, really I think that's a good idea. I'm opposed to abundant resources. The limiting nature of desirable goods and the prerequisite items/levels needed for recipes really shows how this is a game, intended to be played with a sence of progression. From meager existence, to competence, to dominance. That sence of progression drives many of us to try for longer survival times, better stats, etc. What many of us have started to desire is more end game achievable goals, an even more difficult to obtain item, eventual attacks on bases by generated hoards, something to challenge. 'Cause once you've got ten of every thing you need, finding a treasure trove of goods, in say the hardware store in WP, is like big whoop, got plenty of these..

If you want plenty of everything, for base building or whatever, the NecroForge mod I think could be used to give you what you want.

[King jjwpenguin]

I have to say that pz will get a bit easier and a bit harder with a lot of certainty. The lucky trait will help players with finding the goods but for those who dont get them and don't make there way to a safe forest right away are sort of screwed. I have to say in order for me to find axes i typically have to go to west point to find one which is a problem since i prefer moderaugh (I know i butchered the name.) Making axes is useful and being lucky helps even more but the fact is that if you dont have access to either then you are typically out of luck.

[Barry_Ravepants]

Not sure if an item-spawner mod is really a viable solution to what I'm suggesting.

 

Particularly in sandbox, I play to survive and build. I have long days (2 hours) low item spawn, Generally I find about 2-3 axes in Muldraugh, which with heavy use, are all completely useless after about a month. I know it's a survival game, not a simulator, but I find that rate of deterioration breaks my immersion, and lowers my enjoyment of the game when suddenly I'm scrapping around to make axes out of branches and bits of rock, when I have 3 perfectly good axe heads attached to broken handles at my safe-house.

[GrandPunkRailroad]

I find that rate of deterioration breaks my immersion, and lowers my enjoyment of the game when suddenly I'm scrapping around to make axes out of branches and bits of rock, when I have 3 perfectly good axe heads attached to broken handles at my safe-house.

I see your point: axes are rare, necessary, and have low durability. I like the idea of reusability. So: keeping axe heads, re-sharpening them, crafting handles. Is that the proposal?

Barry_Ravepants says about axe handles:

They could also be crafted. I would only like to see this if it required a very high carpentry skill to accomplish, as crafting an axe would be difficult IRL

I'm in agreement with this, they would be quite difficult to craft functional ones without great skill. Tho I think that it would be a welcome addition. Also axe handles require a little shim at the end to attach the axe head. Not difficult, but requires some skill, otherwise the head flies of the handle. So findable shim piece? They're commonly metal and can be found in hardware stores.

[Barry_Ravepants]

 keeping axe heads, re-sharpening them, crafting handles. Is that the proposal?

Barry_Ravepants says about axe handles:

~snip~

I'm in agreement with this, they would be quite difficult to craft functional ones without great skill. Tho I think that it would be a welcome addition. Also axe handles require a little shim at the end to attach the axe head. Not difficult, but requires some skill, otherwise the head flies of the handle. So findable shim piece? They're commonly metal and can be found in hardware stores.

 

 

That's precisely what I'm suggesting, although ready made handles could also be a rare spawn item, also usable as a blunt weapon on their own.

[Kajin]

I'm quite alright with shoddily made handles by unskilled craftsman that are unbalanced, unwieldy and easily broken. Less damage, higher exhaustion penalties and more likely to break when you need them most.