Easily Digestible List of Trait Balance Issues

[braven5]

Most negative traits are sevearly crippling in some manner, yet their mirror opposites tend to be more of a minor improvement by relative comparison.

 

eg being short sighted is hugely crippling as Zombies will often see you before you see them, but eagle eye opposite is only a minor advantage as defalut view is already enough to spot them in good time.

 

Strong vs Weak is another example, a weak person will almost constantly be overburdened and very slow, even when they carry very little, being slow mean they have no hope of outrunning Zombies, Strong on other hand is more of luxtury because default strength is more than suffice to get about with reasonable amout of tools to survive with, and strong just means you can haul much more

 

Despite this, negatives tend to reward equal or more often less than the mirror opposites, which seems wrong and makes certain negatives a must never take coz they dont award enough, and equally certain postives a must never take coz they cost too much.

 

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I really do think some positve trait should cost little less and some the negatives a little more, especially the most crippling negatives.

[Moose65]

Most negative traits are sevearly crippling in some manner, yet their mirror opposites tend to be more of a minor improvement by relative comparison.

 

eg being short sighted is hugely crippling as Zombies will often see you before you see them, but eagle eye opposite is only a minor advantage as defalut view is already enough to spot them in good time.

 

Strong vs Weak is another example, a weak person will almost constantly be overburdened and very slow, even when they carry very little, being slow mean they have no hope of outrunning Zombies, Strong on other hand is more of luxtury because default strength is more than suffice to get about with reasonable amout of tools to survive with, and strong just means you can haul much more

 

Despite this, negatives tend to reward equal or more often less than the mirror opposites, which seems wrong and makes certain negatives a must never take coz they dont award enough, and equally certain postives a must never take coz they cost too much.

 

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I really do think some positve trait should cost little less and some the negatives a little more, especially the most crippling negatives.

 

Really disagree with this. I have NEVER had issues with short-sighted making zombies spot me before I can spot them. You can even pan out your view to see whats up ahead with short-sighted too (which honestly, this trait should disable and make it worth a few more points IMO).

 

Strong has the advantage of increased chance to knockdown, which is very useful when dealing with small groups (especially if your unarmed). Also, being overburdened is not gonna cause you to be unable to outrun zombies at this point. You literally have to break a leg for zombies to even be able to catch up to you (although obese + overburdened might be enough.........but definitely not overburdened by itself).

[Konrad Knox]

In Multiplayer (which is the only thing I play nowadays) Hemophobic is a very serious trait. A skilled medic can save people's lives with high first aid skill. If you're hemophobic, you can't save anyone, and in late game it matters a lot.
Not all traits are early game, and campaigns can be customized to make use of particular traits or make them useless.

If there is no loot respawn, you eventually run out of food and water. You have to purify water and find food. If wildlife abundance is set to anything other than "High" or "very High", then food is scarce. Fish is low, traps come up empty, foraging is bad.

Then Hearty Appetite really becomes a problem, and high thirst pretty much guarantee that you spend a lot of time purifying water.
It also limits your house location to close to water, because you cannot make long runs. Which means you share with neighbors.

So I definitely would not call it free points.

[Moose65]

If you're homophobic, you can't save anyone, and in late game it matters a lot.

 

I probably shouldn't have laughed at this, but you might want to fix that spelling error.

 

Then Hearty Appetite really becomes a problem, and high thirst pretty much guarantee that you spend a lot of time purifying water.

It also limits your house location to close to water, because you cannot make long runs. Which means you share with neighbors.

So I definitely would not call it free points.

 

Lot of traits that are free points are not necessarily free points in multiplayer. With that said though, living close to water is always desirable (only reliable food source year round + unlimited water), so with the current state of the game, I would still consider those free points. You don't HAVE to spend a lot of time purifying water if you've spent time gathering multiple pots. Simply put them all over a campfire and boil them all at once. What is time consuming is then dumping them into bottles..........but hopefully at some point we see a "fill all bottles" option in the future.

 

Edit: Also, as a side-note, you mentioned changing the default settings. That can make or break numerous traits, and you should keep in mind that they more than likely want feedback on the default survival settings.

[Konrad Knox]

 Goddamnit

[Navarome]

I dont understand some of these free points comments, namely these ones... High thirst and hearty appetite are extremely debilititating. Slow reader isn't a free pointer either. Time is no longer money in this world, time is now hunger and thirst and the combined cost of reading all the books is at least a few days more worth of food and drink. Probably a week or 2 more realistically. Whereas being a fast reader will net you more supplies by the time you finish with the books. Speeding up time doesn't counteract this. Hemophobic IS free points, but only until npcs are released. Clumsy and conspicous are also incredibly bad for you, I don't understand how anyone would think a wider noise circle and an increased zombie line of sight angle doesn't affect gameplay. At the moment high thirst and hearty appetite mean that you have to eat and drink about 20 to 30 percent more. When you're speaking percentages anything above 25% more or less is a lot. At least in every RPG I've ever played. With a 50% buff or nerf being legendary or unheard of.

 

Because getting enough food/water to be sustainable is already easy enough in the game? It makes those traits essentially free points. Same with Slow Reader, you have plenty of time to fast forward in single player to get through books.

 

I'll refrain from commenting on Clumsy and Conspicuous due to the new build where I honestly haven't messed with the zombies much yet, but in the previous build it was still free points since its even somewhat helpful in aggroing zombies away from a group, and you can honestly sneak if your having issues. Zombies have been far too easy to deal with due to their lack of proper grouping AI when attacking the player, but until I mess with them more in this build I'll hold back judgement.

 

So until being self-sustaining becomes harder, hearty appetite and high thirst will ALWAYS be free points (and honestly, its impossible nearly to make high thirst not be free points with the numerous ways to get water).

nobody is going to spent years living near a lake for food and water. hearty apetite and h. thirsth are bad in late game during long explorations and even in early game (talking about survival mode)

[stio89]

I think Lucky/Unlucky should be disabled in multiplayer because if a player with the unlucky trait visits an area, Then that area is forever tainted with 'unlucky' status for everyone else even if they have lucky.

[Moose65]

 

nobody is going to spent years living near a lake for food and water. hearty apetite and h. thirsth are bad in late game during long explorations and even in early game (talking about survival mode)

 

 

If you want to survive you will. I've honestly never had problems early game with either of those traits in survival mode. There are plenty of water sources around the map for you to setup a safehouse, not to mention the river that runs all along Westpoint.

 

Its not hard to pack enough food and water for a loot run with those traits. Food and water is extremely easy to obtain.

 

Edit: So far, the only argument I've seen for people saying its NOT free points is that they refuse to take advantage of fishing and living by a water source. I can't say its a very good argument because there are numerous areas with water that you can setup your safehouse, and if you want to live more dangerously, then who's fault is it really then?

 

If you want to solely live off of scavenging from houses then of course these are not "free" points, but if you have plans for late game, then you will naturally want to setup your base of operations near a water source, its really that simple.

[Navarome]

nobody is going to spent years living near a lake for food and water. hearty apetite and h. thirsth are bad in late game during long explorations and even in early game (talking about survival mode)

 

If you want to survive you will. I've honestly never had problems early game with either of those traits in survival mode. There are plenty of water sources around the map for you to setup a safehouse, not to mention the river that runs all along Westpoint.

 

Its not hard to pack enough food and water for a loot run with those traits. Food and water is extremely easy to obtain.

 

Edit: So far, the only argument I've seen for people saying its NOT free points is that they refuse to take advantage of fishing and living by a water source. I can't say its a very good argument because there are numerous areas with water that you can setup your safehouse, and if you want to live more dangerously, then who's fault is it really then?

 

If you want to solely live off of scavenging from houses then of course these are not "free" points, but if you have plans for late game, then you will naturally want to setup your base of operations near a water source, its really that simple.

my raiding operations last days, and i spent days running. last one was from the fishermans cabin house to the abandoned storehouse and autoshop on the other extreme of the map. so light eater and athletic are a must to me. mayby for turtle players , yes its manageble, but on survivel eating so many times and always having to carry food and boil water isnt much atractive.

if the devs come up with making bait fish and worms not eatable/edible i would love to see how much time some people would survive.

[Moose65]

 

if the devs come up with making bait fish and worms not eatable/edible i would love to see how much time some people would survive.

 

 

Worms need fixing no doubt. But fishing is pretty OP, gonna be hard to even do anything about it without downright destroying it (or add in water zombies ).

 

But yeah, with decent fishing skill, catching a few pikes will last you DAYS atm, and to be honest, its the wooden spear that is mostly OP when it comes to fishing since it's renewable.

 

I'd still like to see water zombies added in, because IMO water sources have become the new rooftops as far as turtlein' goes. Throw in some dangers like unseen zombies climbing out of the water depths and you'll add in some risk vs reward, and also force the player to attempt to secure a water area, liking completely walling in a lake to keep zombies out of it.

[Navarome]

if the devs come up with making bait fish and worms not eatable/edible i would love to see how much time some people would survive.

 

Worms need fixing no doubt. But fishing is pretty OP, gonna be hard to even do anything about it without downright destroying it (or add in water zombies ).

 

But yeah, with decent fishing skill, catching a few pikes will last you DAYS atm, and to be honest, its the wooden spear that is mostly OP when it comes to fishing since it's renewable.

 

I'd still like to see water zombies added in, because IMO water sources have become the new rooftops as far as turtlein' goes. Throw in some dangers like unseen zombies climbing out of the water depths and you'll add in some risk vs reward, and also force the player to attempt to secure a water area, liking completely walling in a lake to keep zombies out of it.

honestly fishing rods arent even needed since a i can use traps to catch bait fish and each bait fish last for 2 meals. (i eat everytime the peckish moodle pops up).

my experience with the wodden spear is bad since i rarely catch anything with it. i see it like a high level fishing ultimate rod, xd

im thinking in: a chance for a zombie to pop up from a water body whenever you try to fish and lower fish population.

ps: if you want to see some water zombies theres a single player game called "day of the zombie" were theres a scare part with a horde slowly coming out of water. good fun for 3-4 hours.

[Moose65]

I'm actually doing my first play through in this build........and unfortunately so many traits are still free points.

 

The fact that my favorite weapon is "bare hands" quite a bit into the game on survival means zombie A.I. needs some serious tweaking, as its still far too easy to "rope a dope" and pull zombies 1~3 at a time from hordes.

 

I'm fixing to setup at the cabin again, and I'm gonna predict that simply foraging for wooden spears and fishing is gonna lead me to my death.....of old age.

[Navarome]

I'm actually doing my first play through in this build........and unfortunately so many traits are still free points.

 

The fact that my favorite weapon is "bare hands" quite a bit into the game on survival means zombie A.I. needs some serious tweaking, as its still far too easy to "rope a dope" and pull zombies 1~3 at a time from hordes.

 

I'm fixing to setup at the cabin again, and I'm gonna predict that simply foraging for wooden spears and fishing is gonna lead me to my death.....of old age.

so you are going to the wood cabin next to the lake?

[Toxik]

lucky - blatantly overpowered, hard to recall a lets play where they didnt take it. recommendation: dont try to rebalance or increase cost, just remove it from the game please. makes it way too easy. if unlucky does the exact opposite, it shouldnt exist either, not for only 4 points.

 

iron gut - could be overpowered depending on its effectiveness. if it means you can eat rotten food with little fear of repercussions, its definitely overpowered, since you can eat your rotten farm produce in the winter without having to preserve it.

Yeah, i agree with this one. Lucky is too damm overpowered. Once i settle in i only need to go out one in a while, kill some zeds and by the end of the day i found several axes/baseball bats, lots of ammo and other stuff.

 

Im not so sure about the iron gut, i still have a chance of getting sick from eating rotten food, maybe not with stale food. Maybe you combined iron gut with resilient? That could decrease the chance of getting sick altogether.

[Moose65]

 

I'm actually doing my first play through in this build........and unfortunately so many traits are still free points.

 

The fact that my favorite weapon is "bare hands" quite a bit into the game on survival means zombie A.I. needs some serious tweaking, as its still far too easy to "rope a dope" and pull zombies 1~3 at a time from hordes.

 

I'm fixing to setup at the cabin again, and I'm gonna predict that simply foraging for wooden spears and fishing is gonna lead me to my death.....of old age.

so you are going to the wood cabin next to the lake?

 

 

Yeah, because the rest of the map isn't setup for foraging properly.........if the rest of the map WAS setup.....I would probably hang out in the farm area SE of westpoint, theres some cool houses with a lake there.

[Navarome]

I'm actually doing my first play through in this build........and unfortunately so many traits are still free points.

 

The fact that my favorite weapon is "bare hands" quite a bit into the game on survival means zombie A.I. needs some serious tweaking, as its still far too easy to "rope a dope" and pull zombies 1~3 at a time from hordes.

 

I'm fixing to setup at the cabin again, and I'm gonna predict that simply foraging for wooden spears and fishing is gonna lead me to my death.....of old age.

so you are going to the wood cabin next to the lake?

 

Yeah, because the rest of the map isn't setup for foraging properly.........if the rest of the map WAS setup.....I would probably hang out in the farm area SE of westpoint, theres some cool houses with a lake there.

i see, i tought myself going there too with a second account charater. One of my bases is the lake wood cabin. There was only 1 zombies inside, and it was free of zombies for like 2 months, but when i started to use that base to train carpenty small hordes of 5 zeds started to appear from time to time. i cuted all the tree near the lake border because thats usually were the zombies hang out.

[Moose65]

 

i see, i tought myself going there too with a second account charater. One of my bases is the lake wood cabin. There was only 1 zombies inside, and it was free of zombies for like 2 months, but when i started to use that base to train carpenty small hordes of 5 zeds started to appear from time to time. i cuted all the tree near the lake border because thats usually were the zombies hang out.

 

 

Yep, that's what I do. Clear out all the nearby trees, surround it with a log wall, and enjoy a peaceful long live by the campfire cooking fish every day.

[Navarome]

i see, i tought myself going there too with a second account charater. One of my bases is the lake wood cabin. There was only 1 zombies inside, and it was free of zombies for like 2 months, but when i started to use that base to train carpenty small hordes of 5 zeds started to appear from time to time. i cuted all the tree near the lake border because thats usually were the zombies hang out.

 

Yep, that's what I do. Clear out all the nearby trees, surround it with a log wall, and enjoy a peaceful long live by the campfire cooking fish every day.

when i was there, i was living of baitfish, lol. you could try to make a house on both sides of the lake and make a bridge on the top of the lake betwin the 2 houses O_O

[Jack Bower]

Trowel is extremely overpowered, some call it the hand of god because it creates infinite free food with almost no personal costs. I bind my naga mouse to click "till" over and over again and walk away for five minutes and come back and I have like 100 worms. No problem starving people.

[Moose65]

Trowel is extremely overpowered, some call it the hand of god because it creates infinite free food with almost no personal costs. I bind my naga mouse to click "till" over and over again and walk away for five minutes and come back and I have like 100 worms. No problem starving people.

 

While not a trait, or even a problem with the trowel, worms are indeed OP. They need nerfed hard

 

Worms need to be perishable, limited in how many you can find a day (or in a area), and not findable during the winter. On top of that, they need to not be findable from placed dirt tiles........IMO this will fix how broken they are for keeping you alive for minimal effort.

 

Yeah, worms are kinda dumb and break the hunger system all by themselves with a trowel, spade, and one empty sandbag :/

[Jack Bower]

Can then make bird traps if you have the materials and just trap birds all day for free cooking / trapping skill.

[Moose65]

Can then make bird traps if you have the materials and just trap birds all day for free cooking / trapping skill.

 

If they did some of the changes I listed there, you wouldn't be able to do it during the winter, and if it worked similar to foraging, you would only be able to get so many within x tiles per x time, forcing you to at least a) secure a larger (outdoor) area or b) venture into the unknown.

[Toxik]

Once fatigue is fully coded, it will balance itself out. Using a trovel makes you tired in a blink of an eye, so it will become pointless to start digging just to get some delicious fatty worms.

[Moose65]

Once fatigue is fully coded, it will balance itself out. Using a trovel makes you tired in a blink of an eye, so it will become pointless to start digging just to get some delicious fatty worms.

Not really, they also currently don't perish. So you spend 1 or 2 days digging up worms (from the safety of your own safehouse from the dirt tile you dumped in your living room) and you have food for YEARRRRRSSSSSS..........

[Silverbird]

Lucky - Overpowered. Find so many axes on zeds that you'll never ever run out of axes to use after getting your first one (maybe intentional? since loot doesn't respawn, the number of weapons in the world is limited).

 

Cats eye - idk why people are bashing this perk, I find it to be a really good perk if you plan on doing night-looting...At night, inside buildings, you can't see zombies at all and don't notice them until they're eating you already, with the perk though (if i remember correctly) it totally negates zombies sneaking up on you from dark corners...

 

What else is worth mentioning...

 

Illiterate - needs a couple more points imo, since they added recipe books...

 

slow healer - needs to lose a couple points, same with fast healer. slow-healing wounds gives you the benefit of being able to train medical skills faster, so is this really much of a deperk?

 

high thirst - overpowered, lower to 4 or 3 points, or increase the amount of liquid needed by 50-100% (I seriously never not-take this trait)

 

weak stomach - could be a two point skill, or even a one point skill, i never ever eat rotten food so it's just free points (I'd never eat rotten food even if this trait didn't exist!)

 

slow reader - It's fine...It could be tweaked to make reading magazines/newspapers/plain books even longer than currently, but otherwise i don't have any guff with it, its only 2 points extra (that i again never pass up).

 

brawler - better than people think. better than stout, period.

 

 

strength/fitness perks (in general) - fitness perks seem to offer much more combat advantage imho. knockback is virtually worthless (and occasionally undesirable) while fitness negates the HORRIBLE damage penalty that the first exhaustion moodle gives. I cannot notice any difference in damage with strength (although it's been said, i believe it to be false that strength affects damage in any noticable way).

 

 

If you want some background or discussion meat, I'm running a feeble (yes, i started with 0 strength) fit and brawler build, and with 2 blade accuracy I absolutely wreck zeds with an axe (for quite some time, since 7 fitness keeps you going awhile before that first moodle ruins your damage/swing speed). Day 22, 559 kills, 2 strength (1/3 of the way to 3 strength). More axes than i know what to do with, because lucky is overpowered as hell, and axe durability is even better than baseball bats at around 450 swings per full condition bar.