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Suggestions from a long time Survival player


Hagglefoot

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Hello everyone!,

I first wanted to say what a great game this is, and how much fun I have had with it. This game is truly one of the few more recent survival games I have enjoyed and I am excited to see how healthy the community is and how active the devs are!

 

Having said that, I have a few suggestion/concerns that make the longevity of the game world limited. I have had a Minecraft server for several years, and enjoy going back to old bases I built years ago, and making the move to new areas when the resources are depleted. I tend to keep my servers without restarting saves because I like the idea of seeing what I have done a while back and how I have improved. I've noticed that Project Zomboid lacks crafting of necessary items in order to build shelter, ammo, and the like. This means that if a server is being played on for an extended period of time, there is a very real possibility that all the resources can be used up and starting a new save is necessary. I think there should be some way to craft all necessary components, such as nails, to enable a player to play indefinitely if so desired. Another workaround for this would be having procedural generated maps that go on indefinitely.

 

I'm not sure if PZ was designed as a single player experience or a multiplayer one, but as a purely multiplayer player These are my concerns. I believe that all the other things I would like to see have been brought up and are already being addressed by the devs. Thaks again for reading my post and taking my suggestion into account.

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I have had a Minecraft server for several years. I've noticed that Project Zomboid lacks crafting of necessary items in order to build shelter, ammo, and the like.

Sound like you didn't really play enough PZ mate and looking at your thread title, I thought it would be an interesting read from an experienced player.

 

In PZ you have all the necessary items to build your shelter and ammo is abundance depending on the difficulty level you choose. On my first play through, I only shot three time with a pistol and rely the rest on head clubbing. I also don't need to hide behind a wall. All I need was a few sheets to cover my window so I can climb through it with ease. As long I don't have light or make loud sound, no zombies got near my safe house after a year had gone by.

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I have had a Minecraft server for several years. I've noticed that Project Zomboid lacks crafting of necessary items in order to build shelter, ammo, and the like.

Sound like you didn't really play enough PZ mate and looking at your thread title, I thought it would be an interesting read from an experienced player.

 

In PZ you have all the necessary items to build your shelter and ammo is abundance depending on the difficulty level you choose. On my first play through, I only shot three time with a pistol and rely the rest on head clubbing. I also don't need to hide behind a wall. All I need was a few sheets to cover my window so I can climb through it with ease. As long I don't have light or make loud sound, no zombies got near my safe house after a year had gone by.

 

 

But this isn't what he's getting at... 

 

Think about real life..  Or even the comics for TWD if you've read them.

 

Eventually humanity will either die or start rebuilding.  If we die..  Game over.  If people come together to form communities and start rebuilding..  Then we're going to see people start replenishing supplies.

 

We'll see people making/fixing nails/saws/hammers/axes.

 

We already see an unlimited use with Farming.  You get seeds sometimes when you harvest, which continues your ability to grow the food indefinitely..

 

When you run out of nails on the map, you run out of nails.  There are certain mods that allow you to melt things down and make nails out of them, but vanilla PZ doesn't currently offer a way to do that.

 

Now if you're playing SP then yeah, one person probably doesn't have the knowledge for that...  But thinking in realistic terms if you are with other people, everyone will have their fortes and weaknesses.

 

No need to insult the guy, he makes a valid point.

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When you run out of nails on the map, you run out of nails.   But thinking in realistic terms if you are with other people, everyone will have their fortes and weaknesses.

 

No need to insult the guy, he makes a valid point.

 

Well the key word to your above problems is conservation.

 

The most senisble thing to do is not to build fancy defense with all your nails.

 

If you're playing in MP, you could easily join a community that already have a substantiable defense.

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When you run out of nails on the map, you run out of nails.   But thinking in realistic terms if you are with other people, everyone will have their fortes and weaknesses.

 

No need to insult the guy, he makes a valid point.

 

Well the key word to your above problems is conservation.

 

The most senisble thing to do is not to build fancy defense with all your nails.

 

If you're playing in MP, you could easily join a community that already have a substantiable defense.

 

I don't agree. 

Basically the point is, that compared to minecraft, this game will FORCE you start new server after some time. You won't be able to play infinitely on a server, where it is impossible to replenish critical resource. We can kinda get anything, but we won't be able to build after some time. With this I agree. 

 

And I think, that nails should be found on people, 1-2 nails, roughly as rare as tools. Some people were working.. when the shit came.  

Another way is to craft nails. How is the question..

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When you run out of nails on the map, you run out of nails.   But thinking in realistic terms if you are with other people, everyone will have their fortes and weaknesses.

 

No need to insult the guy, he makes a valid point.

 

Well the key word to your above problems is conservation.

 

The most senisble thing to do is not to build fancy defense with all your nails.

 

If you're playing in MP, you could easily join a community that already have a substantiable defense.

 

I don't agree. 

Basically the point is, that compared to minecraft, this game will FORCE you start new server after some time. You won't be able to play infinitely on a server, where it is impossible to replenish critical resource. We can kinda get anything, but we won't be able to build after some time. With this I agree. 

 

And I think, that nails should be found on people, 1-2 nails, roughly as rare as tools. Some people were working.. when the shit came.  

Another way is to craft nails. How is the question..

 

 

I like the idea of finding a few nails or tools on people.  That's a more natural way of slowly replenishing stock without adding something fancy like a smelter where you melt things into nails.  It's better than having loot respawn in areas, which always takes me out of the immersion a bit.

 

Although I still think a blacksmith occupation should eventually be added along with a trait of that sort.  Personally, I'd still like to be able to "rebuild" society on a SMP server without being forced to reset.

 

Should be able to have it both ways.  Have your cake and eat it too.

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Think about real life. Where do nails come from? Stores. Where do stores get them? Shipments. That's the problem right there. If this was a real apocalypse, there would be no shipments of nails. Eventually supplies in a town would run out, and you would have to move on to the next town.

Or, maybe we could get planks and nails from destroying walls with sledgehammers?

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Or, maybe we could get planks and nails from destroying walls with sledgehammers?

I've been wanting this since I started playing, although pulling things apart with hammer and screwdriver would yield more usable scrap than busting it apart with a sledgehammer.

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Another workaround for this would be having procedural generated maps that go on indefinitely.

 

Random generated maps is a confirmed "no" on the Commonly Suggested Suggestions thread, pinned to the top of the suggestions page. People are supposed to read it before posting (but annoyingly, no-one ever seems to).

 

As far as being able to craft everything we need, I disagree. PZ isn't the fantasy land of Minecraft. It's based on a real world location and should have finite resources. If we want to build, we should have to scavenge for the supplies necessary. If there are no supplies left, tough. I do think we should be able to reclaim some nails by dismantling furniture etc. and also, screws should have a lot more uses as an alternative to nails. Nails are mostly mass-produced nowadays and like Spracky said above, the majority of places import from elsewhere.

 

I disagree with what SliderPro said as well. You can survive indefinitely on a server. We have fishing, foraging, farming to keep us fed and we can now take water from rivers etc. Food and water are essential to survival, nails are not. Just try not to squander your nails and be more selective of when you use them.

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Or, maybe we could get planks and nails from destroying walls with sledgehammers?

I've been wanting this since I started playing, although pulling things apart with hammer and screwdriver would yield more usable scrap than busting it apart with a sledgehammer.

Maybe we could choose to destroy 1/2 the wall with a sledgehammer, which would only destroy the drywall leaving exposed planks. Then you could use hammers and screwdrivers to pull out the nails.

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A lot of good suggestion on the above and some of you inspired me to add a few too

 

- Corpse should spawn random loot that's vital to our survival. I enjoyed killing every zeds but I also enjoy searching their body to find loot and I always imagine their my slot machine but you all know how it turn out.

 

- If you have high carpentry skill, there should be a 55%-70% chance to salvage back some nails from a destroyed building, tool or furniture.

 

If all fail, there is always the easier way , plan B.

 

NPC that let us trade with them... omg.. i love trading !

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Maybe some NPC's will spawn on the edges of the map from time to time with loads of loot, as if they just arrived from looting a neighboring town? If that happened you could put blockades on the roads that are at the end of the maps, and have friendly NPC's guard them!

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Another workaround for this would be having procedural generated maps that go on indefinitely.

 

[Removed to save space]

 

I disagree with what SliderPro said as well. You can survive indefinitely on a server. We have fishing, foraging, farming to keep us fed and we can now take water from rivers etc. Food and water are essential to survival, nails are not. Just try not to squander your nails and be more selective of when you use them.

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think its actually possible to fish forever in this build. You will eventually run out of paperclips and fishing line. You can survive off of foraging and farming, but its very easy for a horde to wipe out even a well-defended patch of farmland if they get access to it, and you can't rely on trapping for infinite food, either.

 

Additionally, there's one other area that we cannot rely on indefinitely: weapons.

 

You can in theory survive off of stone axes, but I really wouldn't recommend it.

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Crafting of Axes, Hammers, and Nails. Isn't far fetched.

 

Axe handle breaks, get a new one.

Hammer handle breaks get a new one.

 

The ends of these things will last for years before rusting if they ever do rust.

Nails should be found in the walls, tables, and other furnishings in the world IMO, which should be deconstructable via blunt trauma

Even bent nails can be straightened to be reused.

 

Then there's the ole get a bolt cutter and some metal to cut.

 

Flat garage doors or sheets of metal can easily be cut to be nailed into some wood just sharpen an end.

 

IMO rebuilding the basic tool components like Axe heads, shouldn't be possible, but it shouldn't be needed either.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think its actually possible to fish forever in this build. You will eventually run out of paperclips and fishing line. You can survive off of foraging and farming, but its very easy for a horde to wipe out even a well-defended patch of farmland if they get access to it, and you can't rely on trapping for infinite food, either.

 

 

Additionally, there's one other area that we cannot rely on indefinitely: weapons.

 

You can in theory survive off of stone axes, but I really wouldn't recommend it.

 

 

Zombies occasionally have weapons on them, moreso for Lucky characters, I routinely find more Axes and Pistols than I could ever possibly use while wiping out hordes of Zombies with a character that has the Lucky trait. Zombies with random stuff like nails or paper clips are much rarer, but they happen as well..... take a few seconds to check the bodies when you kill them instead of just passing them by like most people do.

 

If you build a log wall around your garden Zombies can't get to it, I have yet to see a Zombie that can knock down a door let alone a wall. If you're paranoid you don't even need to build a door into it, just build a set of stairs inside leading to an elevated walkway and use a sheet rope to climb up to it from the outside.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think its actually possible to fish forever in this build. You will eventually run out of paperclips and fishing line. You can survive off of foraging and farming, but its very easy for a horde to wipe out even a well-defended patch of farmland if they get access to it, and you can't rely on trapping for infinite food, either.

 

 

Additionally, there's one other area that we cannot rely on indefinitely: weapons.

 

You can in theory survive off of stone axes, but I really wouldn't recommend it.

 

 

Zombies occasionally have weapons on them, moreso for Lucky characters, I routinely find more Axes and Pistols than I could ever possibly use while wiping out hordes of Zombies with a character that has the Lucky trait. Zombies with random stuff like nails or paper clips are much rarer, but they happen as well..... take a few seconds to check the bodies when you kill them instead of just passing them by like most people do.

 

If you build a log wall around your garden Zombies can't get to it, I have yet to see a Zombie that can knock down a door let alone a wall. If you're paranoid you don't even need to build a door into it, just build a set of stairs inside leading to an elevated walkway and use a sheet rope to climb up to it from the outside.

 

You're seeing something different than I am, then. My team and I got hit with a horde yesterday that tore through the walls of our fort like tissue paper. We lost half our crops.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think its actually possible to fish forever in this build. You will eventually run out of paperclips and fishing line. You can survive off of foraging and farming, but its very easy for a horde to wipe out even a well-defended patch of farmland if they get access to it, and you can't rely on trapping for infinite food, either.

 

 

Additionally, there's one other area that we cannot rely on indefinitely: weapons.

 

You can in theory survive off of stone axes, but I really wouldn't recommend it.

 

 

Zombies occasionally have weapons on them, moreso for Lucky characters, I routinely find more Axes and Pistols than I could ever possibly use while wiping out hordes of Zombies with a character that has the Lucky trait. Zombies with random stuff like nails or paper clips are much rarer, but they happen as well..... take a few seconds to check the bodies when you kill them instead of just passing them by like most people do.

 

If you build a log wall around your garden Zombies can't get to it, I have yet to see a Zombie that can knock down a door let alone a wall. If you're paranoid you don't even need to build a door into it, just build a set of stairs inside leading to an elevated walkway and use a sheet rope to climb up to it from the outside.

 

You're seeing something different than I am, then. My team and I got hit with a horde yesterday that tore through the walls of our fort like tissue paper. We lost half our crops.

 

 

May be using different settings then, I haven't played a game yet with zombie strength set to superhuman so if that's what the server you're on is using I suppose that could possibly do it.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think its actually possible to fish forever in this build. You will eventually run out of paperclips and fishing line. You can survive off of foraging and farming, but its very easy for a horde to wipe out even a well-defended patch of farmland if they get access to it, and you can't rely on trapping for infinite food, either.

 

 

Additionally, there's one other area that we cannot rely on indefinitely: weapons.

 

You can in theory survive off of stone axes, but I really wouldn't recommend it.

 

 

Zombies occasionally have weapons on them, moreso for Lucky characters, I routinely find more Axes and Pistols than I could ever possibly use while wiping out hordes of Zombies with a character that has the Lucky trait. Zombies with random stuff like nails or paper clips are much rarer, but they happen as well..... take a few seconds to check the bodies when you kill them instead of just passing them by like most people do.

 

If you build a log wall around your garden Zombies can't get to it, I have yet to see a Zombie that can knock down a door let alone a wall. If you're paranoid you don't even need to build a door into it, just build a set of stairs inside leading to an elevated walkway and use a sheet rope to climb up to it from the outside.

 

You're seeing something different than I am, then. My team and I got hit with a horde yesterday that tore through the walls of our fort like tissue paper. We lost half our crops.

 

 

May be using different settings then, I haven't played a game yet with zombie strength set to superhuman so if that's what the server you're on is using I suppose that could possibly do it.

 

They are pretty durable walls but  it all depends on the horde size. That and the level of your walls.

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This is why I build in secluded areas. The entire Logging company has a log wall, and I never ever had a horde come visit by. I patrolled the area three times, and basically never saw another zombie.

 

Then I place the farms on the roofs. Broke my leg doing so as well xD!.

 

It literally takes me ten seconds to go out set up traps, then go back to minding the farms for worms. To trap more birds.

 

Set up 20 bird traps, and leave them easy meat. Not that we need to eat meat for its nutritional value. Malnourished isn't a thing yet.

 

Fishing IMO is too impractical, I have to go out of my way to make a new base to go fishing, or leave the safety and comfort of my fort to do so. I hear that Pike don't rot, but neither do birds caught in traps.

 

Roof farms will probably never encounter a zombie horde, such as at the warehouse. The zombies will probably never walk up there, break down the door, then trample your crops even if you're overrun inside the warehouse.

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From my understanding you want the game to allow you to have a form of infinite resources, a way of conservation beyond what we have currently.

So with that I will go top to bottom with your post, Firstly.

I am going to attempt to discredit your survival experience, I honestly think Minecrafts version of "survival" is utterly crap. No real survival aspect, yeah it has needs, well a need. But that 1 need is so easy to fulfill, and you have regenerating health, Mobs aren't difficult to fight, resources are abundant etc etc. So pardon me if I don't think Minecraft would count as survival experience :/

Now for your ideas, I do think the game needs ways of de-construction, which I have no doubt will come in time, but. We have people currently with saves that span over a year in game who haven't had issues with supplies yet, and with the fact the map is only going to get bigger from here on, well we really don't have a problem you were describing. Yes you might some how manage to scour the entire map and use every single nail, but I have no idea what you managed to waste it on.

Anyway this game is about the end, and not going on forever, and I think that aspect is lost when we give ways of getting constant resources, NPC's shouldn't sell supplies that they get from nothing, Airdrops or regenerating loot or whatever shouldn't exist etc.

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