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Why do people want attacking zombie hordes?


cuddlepums

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I could understand that reason if they were on the blood hound setting.

We don't really know what senses the zombies use. They're DEAD. They shouldn't be able to see or hear you, let alone smell you. For all we know the futuristic cyborg voodoo shaman that grew the zombies in a cloning vat could have used his alien mind powers to scrye your location and teleported his undead minions in to attack you.

 

The fact of the matter is that the game is boring if zombies don't threaten your safe house often enough to be considered a viable threat in the mid to late game but people also hate it when the zombies find their base at all. It's hard to make the zombies find you without it feeling like the game just spawned them in.

 

I don't care how the devs end up doing it. I just want my base to come under attack once in a while to make it feel like I'm actually in danger.

You should care how they do it because if zombies have the ability to just spawn right outside our base that would be really annoying IMO and that would make the game much less realistic. It also means the game would be punishing us for no reason other than "were surviving to long" so it decides to spawn a horde right next to our base, or send all the existing zombies in your vicinity to your location because zombies can just sense humans with there magic voodoo demon powers. (sarcasm)

 

I don't know what to say, man. Once you clear out the surrounding area enough, you'll never come under attack because there aren't any zombies close enough to hear/see/smell/have any reason to come looking at all. There are ways to give them reasons to come by (just randomly wandering around, happened to pick up your scent on the breeze and wandered in the direction the breeze was coming from, meta events luring them to the area around you etc.) but few of them are readily visible and most of them would feel, to the player, like a cheap trick to get a horde spawned outside your base. At some point you just gotta suspend your disbelief and go "Hey, it's a zombie game. Zombies do that from time to time. Attacking safe houses and ripping down barricades is their thing."

 

As I said before, I'd be perfectly fine with my base randomly coming under assault by zombies on a semi-regular basis. From the lone zed, to packs of five or six, all the way up to medium sized hordes of two to four dozen, getting a visit from them would surely test my survival skills and base planning. Maybe lower the attack frequency if you're in an isolated area and/or keeping a low sound and sight profile. Maybe raise the frequency if you're in an urban or populated area and you're making lots of noise and/or constantly being seen because you're engaging in an active construction project outside or you just like to run laps around your base. Either way, though, you should still be getting attacked at least occasionally. What's the point of a zombie game if you're not going to be fighting any zombies past the point of self sufficiency?

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Yeah, I'm with Kajin on this one - as long as it's plausible, I don't seem a problem with the odd random group/horde "finding" you and your safehouse. I don't need a solid explanation of the how or why - there could be several reasons: as the zombie population increases, and human numbers dwindle, why wouldn't some zombies roam in search of food? Also, I surely I shouldn't be surprised if my efforts of cutting down half a forest, sawing a massive amount of logs and hammering away building my super fort alerts zombies to my presence? I remember an episode from The Walking Dead, that showed how the zombie horde that found Hershels farm was "created", I thought it was done quite well.

 

The problem in previous builds was that you could clear an area, basically turn your back, and more zombies would spawn, and I'd definitely hate to see something like that, but having the zombies, whether it's the occasional small group, or bigger hordes, eventually find you seems more logical and believable to me than being able to clear an area and basically never have to worry about the zombie threat again..

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What I find most frustrating is that during the early game (single play) when walls and barricades would be useful I don't have the skills and/or resources to build them.  Inevitably by the time I have the skills and resources to build the threat doesn't exist anymore because I have cleared the area around my safehouse.  With the exception of an occasional stray zombie, I will never see any near my house for the rest of the game. 

 

Building walls in single player is really pointless except as an exercise to increase your carpentry skill so you can build fancy crates and rain barrels.

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I have a question for the people who want attacking hordes because I'm not sure I understand why you guys do. Hordes are already able to attack your base if you make to much noise or if a chopper flys over your house zombies are bound to come and attack you (unless you live in a secluded place).

That's actually exactly what we want. It doesn't happen right now, though.

 

Seems like hordes never actually "migrated", so much as they were more or less spawned where ambient migration sounds are set off. They were disabled because the spawning would sometimes go all weird and spawn them in ridiculous places (like your base).

 

Right now, as soon as you've found a place to call home, there's very little to actually do, because nothing really happens. You can make as much noise as you like, and no zombie's gonna come looking for you unless there's already a horde nearby within earshot.

 

It makes mid and late game pretty boring, since the only action you'll find is by seeking it.

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I would really love some system in place that simulated hordes randomly migrating around  the map. This could be as crude as a system that keeps track of a number n, that is on coordinate x,y and traveling in a certain direction v. Once a horde reaches a coordinate that corresponds with the part of the map that "exists" around the player, the game would spawn a horde of n zombies that travel in direction v in that location This could send the horde on a collision course with you and/or your base, but more likely it would miss it, walk "off" the simulated part of the map and become a set of numbers again. Unless you give them a reason to investigate of course.

 

So when you wake up there could be a massive horde passing by just out of sight, and when you decide to read a book on trapping you will never know, but if you, however, decide to chop you some wood, it will be a very, very bad day a la TWD season 2 finale

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I would really love some system in place that simulated hordes randomly migrating around the map. This could be as crude as a system that keeps track of a number n, that is on coordinate x,y and traveling in a certain direction v. Once a horde reaches a coordinate that corresponds with the part of the map that "exists" around the player, the game would spawn a horde of n zombies that travel in direction v in that location This could send the horde on a collision course with you and/or your base, but more likely it would miss it, walk "off" the simulated part of the map and become a set of numbers again. Unless you give them a reason to investigate of course.

So when you wake up there could be a massive horde passing by just out of sight, and when you decide to read a book on trapping you will never know, but if you, however, decide to chop you some wood, it will be a very, very bad day a la TWD season 2 finale

This is almost exactly the idea I had outlined in a pprevious thread. More or less a system that keeps track simply of numbers moving around the map, and spawns the appropriate number in a clump when the player reaches render distance. One group of numbers crosses paths on the map with another, and they merge into a larger group.

Once a group enters the area the player is in, it materializes and becomes affected by player sounds, metagame sounds, etc. This would put hordes in the game, but not automatically send them directly after the player.

Granted, my expertise with LUA is nil, so I don't know how feasible this is within the boundaries of coding, but it seems like a solid way to please both realism and gameplay advocates.

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I looked your post up, and the idea is virtually the same, yes. I don't think it would be too hard to program it, but my understanding of programming is rudimentary at best. It also shouldn't be hard on the computer to simulate horde migration, especially if you keep it simple and there is no need to make it very elaborate or realisting because it all happens out of sight.  But it would create a lot of interesting situations without feeling gamy, I think.

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one way to implement this "horde attacks your base" thingie would be to use a scent map. Having a permanent base implies going to and from lots of times, thus leaving a scent trail behind you. Zombies could sniff your scent when it grows strong enough, and follow it to your base. But since they're active only in a small area around the player, maybe just have a horde spawn along those routes every now and then would simulate good enough the fact that they're supposed to follow that scent from wherever they are.

(all scent map idea is actually borrowed from CDDA, but i'm sure no one would mind )

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one way to implement this "horde attacks your base" thingie would be to use a scent map. Having a permanent base implies going to and from lots of times, thus leaving a scent trail behind you. Zombies could sniff your scent when it grows strong enough, and follow it to your base. But since they're active only in a small area around the player, maybe just have a horde spawn along those routes every now and then would simulate good enough the fact that they're supposed to follow that scent from wherever they are. (all scent map idea is actually borrowed from CDDA, but i'm sure no one would mind )"

 

 

I'm digging this idea as well.  Really, there should be quite a few factors affecting how, why, and when a zombie horde finally makes it's way to your doorstep.  The beautiful thing, from a survivor stand point, is that it doesn't matter TOO much.  Once they're at your door, trying to figure out how they got there goes right out the window (for the most part).

 

I just showed my wife how safe you are once an area is cleared out by standing on the roof of my home (the warehouse next to the storage area on the east end of West Point) and firing off a pistol repeatedly while shouting over and over.  By all zombie lore, that in and of itself should have brought Hell down on me.  Instead, I went back inside my walls to boil water peacefully.

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I would really love some system in place that simulated hordes randomly migrating around  the map. This could be as crude as a system that keeps track of a number n, that is on coordinate x,y and traveling in a certain direction v. Once a horde reaches a coordinate that corresponds with the part of the map that "exists" around the player, the game would spawn a horde of n zombies that travel in direction v in that location This could send the horde on a collision course with you and/or your base, but more likely it would miss it, walk "off" the simulated part of the map and become a set of numbers again. Unless you give them a reason to investigate of course.

 

So when you wake up there could be a massive horde passing by just out of sight, and when you decide to read a book on trapping you will never know, but if you, however, decide to chop you some wood, it will be a very, very bad day a la TWD season 2 finale

This, horde migration I understand but having hordes just have the ability to hunt your base down and attack it I disagree with.
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I would really love some system in place that simulated hordes randomly migrating around  the map. This could be as crude as a system that keeps track of a number n, that is on coordinate x,y and traveling in a certain direction v. Once a horde reaches a coordinate that corresponds with the part of the map that "exists" around the player, the game would spawn a horde of n zombies that travel in direction v in that location This could send the horde on a collision course with you and/or your base, but more likely it would miss it, walk "off" the simulated part of the map and become a set of numbers again. Unless you give them a reason to investigate of course.

 

So when you wake up there could be a massive horde passing by just out of sight, and when you decide to read a book on trapping you will never know, but if you, however, decide to chop you some wood, it will be a very, very bad day a la TWD season 2 finale

This, horde migration I understand but having hordes just have the ability to hunt your base down and attack it I disagree with.

 

I agree with you, in that I wouldn't want every horde to automatically be able to hunt you down, every time, or know for sure that at a certain point in the game that a horde is going to be coming - but I think we at least need the possibility, something to keep the games tension, the zombie threat constant etc.

 

I definitely don't want anything that feels like, "right, you've survived X number of days, here comes a super horde straight to your base" type scenario, but having occasional single zombies, groups, and the chance of the odd horde wandering past and maybe discovering your base would add to the feel that you're never completely safe imo. :)

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What if nearby rotting corpses, crops, and large stockpiles of food attracted zombies because of the smell? And maybe smoke from fires would attract them from far off? And if you know anything about hammering nails, you would know it's quite the noisy buisness.

This, merging with the horde spawning that Merinus mentioned would work great.

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On one side, continuous sieges is something to be kept on toes about.

 

However on the other side I have a large multi-chunk spot of land with a perimeter barbed-wire/wood fence that I am trying to maintain.

 

Within the parameters some people are suggesting, having zed that spawn in cleared and patrol'd areas as the chunk reloads is a problem unless I decide to build something within said chunk. I know that there is a perimeter and I hate when a 'spawn-in-chunk' zed is obvious. I already have the problem when I run back to base and the house the property over has two freshly spawned zed inside of it when I know there was no breach of any kind. Building a shelf in the building seemed to be the only answer to my problem as I regularly stored stuff in that house's already existing furniture.

 

Respawning zed is something I disabled in a heartbeat for these exact reasons, because I want to feel rewarded for feeling smart about clearing out an area. Farming and renovating an office into a library is challenge enough for me.

 

WITH ALL THAT SAID, I still think that hordes should migrate with a tendency to come across players. It's a good thing to worry about, and it saves the people I'm playing with from finding reasons to worry about PVP.

 

You see, when the people I play with run out of zed to hide from, they start worrying about the people around them, and it just turns into personal drama.

 

You warn people about a horde on the horizon, they stop trying to pick fights, and stuff gets intense from that point forward.

 

I have no problem with zed spawning to a light amount, it's just the fact that they spawn in places I know I strategically cleared that makes me disable it.

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some sort of zombie movement would be nice ... im in my 2nd month in a survival game atm and while the immediate surroundings of my safehouse are fine the furthe reaches are still swarming with tons of zombies. would be nice to have those actually attack from time to time.

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Adding my answer: you attack them because they aren't attacking you. Current system may be more "realistic" (lol) but when it comes to !!fun!!, it's not very nice to see nothing happen. There's no need to build a safe house atm.

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Adding my answer: you attack them because they aren't attacking you. Current system may be more "realistic" (lol) but when it comes to !!fun!!, it's not very nice to see nothing happen. There's no need to build a safe house atm.

Not really sure how the current system is more realistic. Just saying.

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Adding my answer: you attack them because they aren't attacking you. Current system may be more "realistic" (lol) but when it comes to !!fun!!, it's not very nice to see nothing happen. There's no need to build a safe house atm.

Not really sure how the current system is more realistic. Just saying.

I agree. Generally zombies' strongest sense is smell... So an east breeze blows over your base and carries the scent of yourself and your newly cooked stir fry, and next thing you know the horde of rotters is at your fromt door.

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I don't agree that zombies strongest sense is smell in all of the zombie movies/ TV shows I have watched it has always been about keeping your noise level down so I would say its more about hearing. But in project zomboid the normal zombie setting of smell is NORMAL and so is hearing and sight so I would guess zombies have the normal smelling power of a human and humans i'm pretty sure cant pick up scents.

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I don't agree that zombies strongest sense is smell in all of the zombie movies/ TV shows I have watched it has always been about keeping your noise level down so I would say its more about hearing. But in project zomboid the normal zombie setting of smell is NORMAL and so is hearing and sight so I would guess zombies have the normal smelling power of a human and humans i'm pretty sure cant pick up scents.

>.>

 

Humans can pick up all sorts of scents. It's what your nose is for. And this also isn't getting into the fact that we still don't (and won't ever) know what exactly is causing the zombies to come back from the dead, hence my earlier joke about cybernetic voodoo shamans from the future. Whatever brought them back could have easily given them a better sense of smell than any living human. Normally we try to stick as close to realism as possible on these forums but I'm reasonably certain we can hand wave a thing or two about the physiology of a rotting corpse that is simultaneously walking around and hungering for the flesh of the living.

 

The trick here to having zombies attacking established bases more frequently is balancing it out. You gotta have it happen often enough for it to be interesting/entertaining while also not happening so often that it reeks of fake difficulty bullshit. Often enough to be a viable threat to the players but not so often that it becomes too difficult. I'm confident that the PZ Team will be able to strike that balance if and when they introduce a mechanic that causes such attacks.

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I think a "random" horde attacking your safehouse just because you're there would be quite... cheesy. I can understand the frustration of having a 4, 5 months game where there are no zombies in a 500 metres radius and no one is posing a threat to your survival whatsoever. But I think a horde isn't the solution, a random one that's it. Remember the movie: "The Day of the Living Dead"?. When they landed the helicopter in the outskirts of a well-populated city to look for survivors and started yelling in a loudhailer, basically EVERY zombie in a mile radius started shambling toward them. PZ's zombies should be much, much more alert and susceptible to noises, expecially loud ones. A hammer, for example... when you barricade a window you WILL make a lot of noise. Zombies should be able to hear it from much, much farther. Right now you can practically barricade an house and the zombies 20 metres away won't even notice that. That would make barricading a house inside a city almost impossible, and it would force survivors to do that in less populated areas.

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Great idea Aurex. Maybe increase the volume levels that certain activities produce. If you've ever hammered a nail, you would know how loud it is. When you're in an open street hammering a nail, it could reverberate all the way to the end of town potentially. And if light and movement attracts zombies, then an actual fire would be very risky to light. Fire can produce a high tower of smoke, which would bring the zombies to you.

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I think a "random" horde attacking your safehouse just because you're there would be quite... cheesy.

I don't think a "random" zombie attack is entirely out of the question, either. The world is filled to the brim with the undead. Statistically speaking, SOME of them are gonna happen across you entirely be coincidence just from random wandering around.

 

As I said before, the trick is to make it so that the attacks are scaled to an appropriate level of difficulty as well as how likely you are to be attacked based on where you are and how large a profile (how much noise you make and how readily visible you are) you present. If you're based inside a town with a high density of undead, you should be attracting a "random" zombie attack at least once every other day. Less if you're keeping a low profile (sheets on windows, not going outside, no active construction projects) and more if you're not trying to keep a low profile (no sheets on windows, near constant banging of hammers and/or running laps around the house a lot). If you've built yourself a cabin in the woods where zombies are less common, attacks might be as often as once every week or two, but they should still be happening.

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