Armor is a must.

[King jjwpenguin]

 

 

No offense guys but I think realistically all you'd need would be a sweater.... Has anyone ever tried to chew through cloth before? Humans (and z's) have very limited jaw strength and to actually "bite" through a piece of cloth would be near impossible. They'd have to chew on you for a bit to get through it, or rip it. All this ballistic gear is unnecessary imo. Maybe thicker jeans will rip less or leather jackets that will do the same.

OK just to be clear. I have got cuts through a sweater with little to no damage to the clothing itself.

Then about the armor its something that has not been confirmed but is most likely going to be added due to the amount of people on the forums wanting it. Still it could be a while or even worse. It could be denied, pretty sure they confirmed it or mentioned it at some point but cant prove it.

 

 

Was the cut due to a human grabbing you? I think the forum of people are wanting armor because they're forgetting that these Z's are basically slow, dumb, dead human beings. We're attributing superhuman powers to them when they simply don't exist.

 

Now if they start going "Dawn of the Dead" (new version) on us, then yes I would think armor may be an awesome thing to have.

 

Yes and no. The person managed to scratch me but also due to me pulling away may have made it worse. It still cut and not all clothes are durable. Some are but not all. Just to say its still possibly for a z to do it. 

[BetaSpectre]

What really scratches you though is the clothing itself not the zombie.

Unless you rolled up your sleeves and pants, which seems to be the case in game.

 

There are no rips usually, just the clothes rubbing too close to your skin.

[CaptKaspar]

 

 

 

No offense guys but I think realistically all you'd need would be a sweater.... Has anyone ever tried to chew through cloth before? Humans (and z's) have very limited jaw strength and to actually "bite" through a piece of cloth would be near impossible. They'd have to chew on you for a bit to get through it, or rip it. All this ballistic gear is unnecessary imo. Maybe thicker jeans will rip less or leather jackets that will do the same.

The problem are not bites but scratchs.

 

Except for leather jackets that are pretty resistant normally, most cloths are not designed to resist the pull of human hands.

 

Its quite easily to rip clothes apart and a zombie would have no problem doing the same with a sweater and thus scratch the character.

 

Thats why I mentioned tear resistant clothes like the jumsuits of F1 pilots.

 

I'd like you to perform an experiment: Take your shirt in both of your hands and see how much power it takes to rip your shirt apart, or even a sleeve. Honestly I think it'd be better if they did rip easier so you could ditch the piece and run. Clothes (in first world countries) are built to be durable and cheap.

 

I'm not sure how a human fingernail would pierce a piece of clothing more than a human tooth.

 

I'd suggest tight clothing that's not easy to grab on to, lightweight so as not to be too hot, and some duct tape to tape down edges.

 

I have and although it resist for a time the tearing if you grab the shirt by both sides of the fabric (sorry my english)

 

If you take your shirt, grab the collar section by one of the sides only, and try to rip it you will easily tear it. Variations will occur but these will be based on the type of fabric used to make the shirt.

 

Also there's the factor that if you ask a friend to rip your sweater (acting as the zombie) while you are trying to run away from him, both of you would be applying strength to the act (you running and he trying to grab you) and thus the sweater will rip apart more quick.

 

The point is: normal clothing is not that resistant to tear.

 

 

Can't forget that in game we can already tear any piece of clothing (by ourselves with barehands) into 8 ripped sheets.

[Demonic_Kat]

 

 

 

 

No offense guys but I think realistically all you'd need would be a sweater.... Has anyone ever tried to chew through cloth before? Humans (and z's) have very limited jaw strength and to actually "bite" through a piece of cloth would be near impossible. They'd have to chew on you for a bit to get through it, or rip it. All this ballistic gear is unnecessary imo. Maybe thicker jeans will rip less or leather jackets that will do the same.

The problem are not bites but scratchs.

 

Except for leather jackets that are pretty resistant normally, most cloths are not designed to resist the pull of human hands.

 

Its quite easily to rip clothes apart and a zombie would have no problem doing the same with a sweater and thus scratch the character.

 

Thats why I mentioned tear resistant clothes like the jumsuits of F1 pilots.

 

I'd like you to perform an experiment: Take your shirt in both of your hands and see how much power it takes to rip your shirt apart, or even a sleeve. Honestly I think it'd be better if they did rip easier so you could ditch the piece and run. Clothes (in first world countries) are built to be durable and cheap.

 

I'm not sure how a human fingernail would pierce a piece of clothing more than a human tooth.

 

I'd suggest tight clothing that's not easy to grab on to, lightweight so as not to be too hot, and some duct tape to tape down edges.

 

I have and although it resist for a time the tearing if you grab the shirt by both sides of the fabric (sorry my english)

 

If you take your shirt, grab the collar section by one of the sides only, and try to rip it you will easily tear it. Variations will occur but these will be based on the type of fabric used to make the shirt.

 

Also there's the factor that if you ask a friend to rip your sweater (acting as the zombie) while you are trying to run away from him, both of you would be applying strength to the act (you running and he trying to grab you) and thus the sweater will rip apart more quick.

 

The point is: normal clothing is not that resistant to tear.

 

 

Can't forget that in game we can already tear any piece of clothing (by ourselves with barehands) into 8 ripped sheets.

 

Dang it Capt! I was hoping no one would bring that up. That is a good point though and probably should be remedied with the use of a sharp utensil or sharp rock.

[Jsnazz]

Perhaps there is a better way to obtain different armors for those enjoyed getting scratch up by zombies. For example, while raiding a cosplay shop I found this.

 

[silents429]

Eh. Realistically a sweat shirt would be more then enough to block bites and scratches alright? Human teeth are flat and our jaws don't have the ability to rip cloth. Fingers nails being fugly or not from whatever aren't going to rip it either.

For the case of ripping our clothes I never quite understood why we could do that without a knife. Even if the clothes were that weak we couldn't actually rip them into usable bandages of 8 lengths in the first place.

So.

No armor, I think Kevlar should be added since I believe police stations have those and it would be useful against players/NPCs but we don't need it doing jack against zombies.

[Evilwuun]

Doing a little research reveals that the human jaw can exert between 55 and 200 psi on average, depending on which teeth are being used. The smaller bones in our bodies can be fractured with as little as 25 psi.

What this means is that while a sweater or similar article of clothing may prevent tears and punctures to the skin, there is still some room for serious structural damage to occur, depending on how and where you're bitten. Long story short, a sweater isn't really an efficient form of "armor" against the human jaw.

Just trying to inject a little scientific perspective into the conversation.

[Realmkeeper]

I don't see how all this "your clothes won't tear, you'll be fine" came about.

Considering most clothing is fairly absorbent, the cloth itself would/will absorb bodily fluids from the 'biter'. Therefore, regardless of whether the clothing tears or not when the 'bitten' skin is punctured beneath it (and your skin will puncture from a Z bite through any form of clothing that doesn't spread or dampen the force), the 'bitten' will end up with foreign bodily fluid in the wound.

 

I'm not theorizing about resisting a piercing or stabbing wound; A bite from a zombie would most likely be a blunt force injury, in which case many forms of protection/armour will be ineffective anyway, and may end up an aggravating factor in the injury (like chainmail).

As has already been mentioned, another factor to take into account is that pulling out of a bite would contribute greatly to the likelihood of flesh tearing, whether you're in a crushing or piercing grip.

[deprav]

Also, sweaters and fabric clothes would not be effective against scratches. I don't know if guys have cats, but when they climb along your legs and grip your pants with their claws, you can feel it going into your skin : clothes are made from fabric and synthetic "knit" matter, anything a tad pointy (like nails, bones or jewelry) can get through a knot or pierce a tiny hole, pulling on it or pulling yourself away would get you some nasty scratchs.

Jean, leather, thick winter coats/parkas or "oilskin" coats could havefer some decent protection against scratchs and bites, any thiner synthetic fabric would be like being naked.

I'm not against armors/kevlars/anti-riot stuff or hand crafted armors, but only if it comes with great costs : faster exertion, slower movement, high temperature during summer, more noise, being grabbed more easily etc...

[silents429]

Also, sweaters and fabric clothes would not be effective against scratches. I don't know if guys have cats, but when they climb along your legs and grip your pants with their claws, you can feel it going into your skin : clothes are made from fabric and synthetic "knit" matter, anything a tad pointy (like nails, bones or jewelry) can get through a knot or pierce a tiny hole, pulling on it or pulling yourself away would get you some nasty scratchs.

Jean, leather, thick winter coats/parkas or "oilskin" coats could havefer some decent protection against scratchs and bites, any thiner synthetic fabric would be like being naked.

I'm not against armors/kevlars/anti-riot stuff or hand crafted armors, but only if it comes with great costs : faster exertion, slower movement, high temperature during summer, more noise, being grabbed more easily etc...

Don't particularily disagree but a Cat claw and human teeth don't relate at all.

[deprav]

 

Also, sweaters and fabric clothes would not be effective against scratches. I don't know if guys have cats, but when they climb along your legs and grip your pants with their claws, you can feel it going into your skin : clothes are made from fabric and synthetic "knit" matter, anything a tad pointy (like nails, bones or jewelry) can get through a knot or pierce a tiny hole, pulling on it or pulling yourself away would get you some nasty scratchs.

Jean, leather, thick winter coats/parkas or "oilskin" coats could havefer some decent protection against scratchs and bites, any thiner synthetic fabric would be like being naked.

I'm not against armors/kevlars/anti-riot stuff or hand crafted armors, but only if it comes with great costs : faster exertion, slower movement, high temperature during summer, more noise, being grabbed more easily etc...

Don't particularily disagree but a Cat claw and human teeth don't relate at all.

 

I don't disagree either, that's why I mainly mentioned nails, bones & jewelry, and cuts and scratches ;o

For the teeth & bites part, RealmKeeper's post -just above mine- explains it pretty well.

[BetaSpectre]

The general concept is:

 

No tear from bite = No infection

No Cut from zombie scratch = No Infection

 

But if what causes the zombification was just saliva on your skin, akin to mercury poisoning, then I could see how zombies don't need to actually break the skin to infect, but this clearly isn't the case.

 

Though if we look at the player character they seem to always roll up their sleeves though that only leaves room for injury, if they just kept them down they'd be near impervious to the things that decent players would encounter.

 

Of course it would make the game less challenging if we had normal sweaters prevent bites and scratches, instead making them into bruises.

 

I'd still like to see armor that slows the character down and provides either lots of heat or none at all.

[Nightmaster]

Eh. Realistically a sweat shirt would be more then enough to block bites and scratches alright? Human teeth are flat and our jaws don't have the ability to rip cloth. Fingers nails being fugly or not from whatever aren't going to rip it either.

For the case of ripping our clothes I never quite understood why we could do that without a knife. Even if the clothes were that weak we couldn't actually rip them into usable bandages of 8 lengths in the first place.

So.

No armor, I think Kevlar should be added since I believe police stations have those and it would be useful against players/NPCs but we don't need it doing jack against zombies.

Have you tried to get a shirt ripped to make and improvised bandage in real life? I have and you would be quite surprised on how easy is to make rips of cloth. That only change with the type of fabric you are trying to tear.

 

The problem is not if we can make rips of cloth or not to create bandages, but the fact that theres not difference between the several types of fabric that exist. Some like the ones used to make sweaters are not suitable to make bandages for example.

[Nightmaster]

I'm not theorizing about resisting a piercing or stabbing wound; A bite from a zombie would most likely be a blunt force injury, in which case many forms of protection/armour will be ineffective anyway, and may end up an aggravating factor in the injury (like chainmail).

As has already been mentioned, another factor to take into account is that pulling out of a bite would contribute greatly to the likelihood of flesh tearing, whether you're in a crushing or piercing grip.

The problem is that the area of contact for the human bite is quite large as a whole. Just so you get to know you can stab someone with a blunt object. You only need the right pressure in a single point to do so.

 

Padded cloth can and will protect your body quite easy against bites from most animals. The degree of protection varies with the fabric material used, the amount of layers of fabric used and mainly if the attacker have pointed/sharpened teeth.

 

That's why when training attack dogs the trainer use a heavy padded armor, because the dogs' fangs would rip the cloth apart easily otherwise.

 

Humans dont have pointed teeth like dogs, so the amount of layers in a cloth to protect against zombie bites and scratches would be a lot less

[SomeRandomGuy]

 

I'd suggest tight clothing that's not easy to grab on to, lightweight so as not to be too hot, and some duct tape to tape down edges.

 

 

So.....basically what you're saying is we should all be running around wearing spandex?

[Sliderpro]

I think, that is pretty easy to do. Simply change properties of clothes and make them block damage with some % and movement speed reduction. As an example, sweater - 2% movespeed reduction, gives 30% to block chest and hands damage, leather jeans which give 3% reduction and give 45% to block incoming damage completely and decrease damage taken by 1lvl with 30% chance..ETC

[Demonic_Kat]

I think everyone is taking this "sweater" thing too literal. What I'm trying to say is that normal clothing is protective against bites and scratches made by human beings.

Someone brought up the saliva of a Z penetrating through the cloth and getting on the skin. That brings up the fact that everything around is potentially infected and just the act of killing a Z will expose you. Also, do Z's even salivate anymore?

Someone else said something about a cat climbing up their clothes. Cats have needle sharp claws, humans do not.

Yes clothes CAN AND DO GET DAMAGED but they're readily changeable and durable. The suggestion of adding armor beyond regular clothing makes me think of someone showing up to a fist fight with chain mail or a riot suit on.

[emiliano0086]

That´s why i think simple bulletproof vest would the only amor the game should have, and that`s to protect us against NPC weapons.

[Demonic_Kat]

That´s why i think simple bulletproof vest would the only amor the game should have, and that`s to protect us against NPC weapons.

Hear hear! But still that'd be hot to wear around.

[Nightmaster]

I think everyone is taking this "sweater" thing too literal. What I'm trying to say is that normal clothing is protective against bites and scratches made by human beings.

Someone brought up the saliva of a Z penetrating through the cloth and getting on the skin. That brings up the fact that everything around is potentially infected and just the act of killing a Z will expose you. Also, do Z's even salivate anymore?

Someone else said something about a cat climbing up their clothes. Cats have needle sharp claws, humans do not.

Yes clothes CAN AND DO GET DAMAGED but they're readily changeable and durable. The suggestion of adding armor beyond regular clothing makes me think of someone showing up to a fist fight with chain mail or a riot suit on.

"Armor" can be a very misused word. "Protection" would be a better word.

 

The fact remain that some sort of protection, be it against zombies or against NPcs should be implemented in the game.

 

As for actual armor, armor made of thick leather could be very well created by a character. Tannery was one of the first professions the human race developed.

 

In that regard, leather armor (made with tannery) could very well protect against blades, clubs, zombie bites and scratches. Completlly useless agains firearms, but most of the time the character would not be facing NPCs.

[OffitJim]

I think people are forgetting that zombies are the undead and shouldn't be compared to regular folk. They don't feel pain nor are they empathetic to the pain of others. They would continue doing an action long after a regular human would have stopped. When they bite into a person, they do so with complete disregard of their own jaw and the arm of the recipient. They're not even aware they have jaws. This would enable them to bite with a force greater than we can muster. Similarly, when humans bite other people, we're aware of the pain it inflicts of the recipient. This awareness is why most of us (the sane) wouldn't even begin biting someone. Zombies don't care. They just want to eat your brains and gain your knowledge.

I'm generally against armor. Personally, I think it'd make the game easier and being bitten would just be one less thing to worry about. Leather jackets and different types of clothing in relation to keeping warm in winter would be cool. But people talking about kevlar etc, where do you draw the line? Knights armor is a real thing but it would suck if it were in zomboid. Just takes all the risk away.

[silents429]

 

Eh. Realistically a sweat shirt would be more then enough to block bites and scratches alright? Human teeth are flat and our jaws don't have the ability to rip cloth. Fingers nails being fugly or not from whatever aren't going to rip it either.

For the case of ripping our clothes I never quite understood why we could do that without a knife. Even if the clothes were that weak we couldn't actually rip them into usable bandages of 8 lengths in the first place.

So.

No armor, I think Kevlar should be added since I believe police stations have those and it would be useful against players/NPCs but we don't need it doing jack against zombies.

Have you tried to get a shirt ripped to make and improvised bandage in real life? I have and you would be quite surprised on how easy is to make rips of cloth. That only change with the type of fabric you are trying to tear.

 

The problem is not if we can make rips of cloth or not to create bandages, but the fact that theres not difference between the several types of fabric that exist. Some like the ones used to make sweaters are not suitable to make bandages for example.

 

I can't say I have gone and ripped my shirt up. My Mother would probably be pissed.

But I do actually question if shirts themselves are suitable as bandages or a way to keep pressure on a wound. I don't see easy to rip shirts as very absorbing.

[silents429]

I think people are forgetting that zombies are the undead and shouldn't be compared to regular folk. They don't feel pain nor are they empathetic to the pain of others. They would continue doing an action long after a regular human would have stopped. When they bite into a person, they do so with complete disregard of their own jaw and the arm of the recipient. They're not even aware they have jaws. This would enable them to bite with a force greater than we can muster. Similarly, when humans bite other people, we're aware of the pain it inflicts of the recipient. This awareness is why most of us (the sane) wouldn't even begin biting someone. Zombies don't care. They just want to eat your brains and gain your knowledge.

I'm generally against armor. Personally, I think it'd make the game easier and being bitten would just be one less thing to worry about. Leather jackets and different types of clothing in relation to keeping warm in winter would be cool. But people talking about kevlar etc, where do you draw the line? Knights armor is a real thing but it would suck if it were in zomboid. Just takes all the risk away.

Okay well someone already stated how powerful the human jaw bite is. And whether or not a zombie disregards having a jaw doesn't mean they suddenly have a stronger jaw. If anything they are rotting corpses and biting down so hard could just damage the jaw further.

As for armor we shouldn't push it but giving a little something for PVP isn't breaking anything and finding some vests in a police station isn't out of the ordinary.

[Magic Mark]

IMO in real life you would not wear hefty body armor every time you left your house, or in general. You all think it's good on pen and paper but then you get to real life and realize you are wearing an extra 10 pounds of clothing in the summer heat.

 

Armor is uncomfortable and probably not realistic to expect somebody to wear for half of the day, and I couldn't stand my full-body uniforms at some of the places I worked at.

 

Sure, you would wear it when you knew you would be getting into a close fight, but you also must realize that it gets uncomfortable quickly.

[silents429]

IMO in real life you would not wear hefty body armor every time you left your house, or in general. You all think it's good on pen and paper but then you get to real life and realize you are wearing an extra 10 pounds of clothing in the summer heat.

 

Armor is uncomfortable and probably not realistic to expect somebody to wear for half of the day, and I couldn't stand my full-body uniforms at some of the places I worked at.

 

Sure, you would wear it when you knew you would be getting into a close fight, but you also must realize that it gets uncomfortable quickly.

Well you are narrowing it down. Say your faction is about to raid another, you would grab a bullet proof vest for example.

And well. Never wore full body uniform, I don't imagine a vest is that bad to wear, and being a vest I don't see how it can be that discomforting, It would be a personal taste.

Now full body armor obviously going to heat you up and slow you down, but at the same time make you a kinda walking tank sort of thing. I don't see it's full use outside of the above scenario but it just adds that extra couple options for the player, that don't ruin the game, but don't feel like a wasted feature.