can/can't vs. try -> succeed/fail
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Hello,

 

I thought I'd share an idea I thought would be:

  1. easy to implement
  2. logical
  3. rewarding
  4. interesting

So, instead of being able/not able to craft a certain item at a certain level, it should be possible to try at any level. This is how real life works, so... it makes sense.

 

The rate of success could follow an exponential function such as:

 

r93hhg.jpg

 

Of course there must be a penalty for failure, right?

 

Suggestions:

 

  • crafting materials are destroyed
  • crafting materials produce some unwanted product
  • you hurt yourself

 

(clyde) (clyde) (clyde)

 

ps. It could be even be made so that the "quality" of a produced item depends on the combination of your experience and luck, like it is in real life, but in a less "quantized" manner (level X != you always produce quality, level Y != if you have luck you may be able to exceed the typical quality of your level)

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I don't like this idea because of randomness and randomness in PZ is very bad mechanic and should be avoided in most cases in my opinion.

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What hrot means is that the amount of building materials in the game is randomized everytime you create a new game. Its also limited in quantity so any screwup would mean losing the said materials and except for wood youcould easily end up without nails/screws/etc to work on.

 

Your idea of a learning curve is good. Also is the idea of if you fail you get a penalty like hurt yourself.

 

But no losing materials. That is bad form

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I just don't like randomness when your character do something.

Like for example chance to choking to death when eating etc.

I think current system is good and that idea don't add anything interesting but that's just my opinion.

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Its also limited in quantity so any screwup would mean losing the said materials and except for wood youcould easily end up without nails/screws/etc to work on.

 

You already consume (most of) the materials you use, that's basically the idea of the game :)

Theoretically (and eventually) you will run out everything...

 

I just don't like randomness when your character do something.

 

I do understand your concern, of course no player wants to "lose control". I agree that's a bad game mechanic. However this change would not make you lose control. You would still be able to build e.g. a rain collector barrel 100% of the time on level 4, exactly like before, but would allow you to take the risk of attempting to build one before level 4, without being 100% sure you are able.

 

It is exactly the same thing with breaking windows, you might get cut or you might not.

You let a zombie scratch you and you might get infected or not.

That's already randomized.

You just need to know the rules, know the consequences and be in control.

 

Like for example chance to choking to death when eating etc.

 

Well... that's just silly. 8-)

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I am sorry, my response might have come out a little aggressive. I'm not a native English speaker so.. but I do apologize if I someone was offended, I was merely trying to address the arised concerns.

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I got your point but you are forgeting that nails, door hinges and etc can be reclaimed when you disassembly wooden walls, crates and etc. That means that they can be reused and thus you never lose those resources.

 

Your idea, while good, adds the possibility to lose forever the said resources, and in a game with limited resources that is not good.

 

Just my two cents

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I think we are lovely in this thread :D

I'm also not a native English speaker so maybe sometimes my posts may be not polite or something but I had no such intentions to be rude / aggresive etc.

I do understand your concern, of course no player wants to "lose control". I agree that's a bad game mechanic. However this change would not make you lose control. You would still be able to build e.g. a rain collector barrel 100% of the time on level 4, exactly like before, but would allow you to take the risk of attempting to build one before level 4, without being 100% sure you are able.

 

If this would be in that way it's will be not so bad. Some players would take risk because of importrance of some items and lack of skill to make them.

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I suggested something similar a while ago, I like it.

For people arguing against "randomness" : randomness is everywhere in a game based on stats and "dice rolls", what you're talking about is "losing control" of your character. In that precise case there's no loss of control at any point, players are free to chose to build or not to build higher-tier items, they're willingly putting their limited ressources at risk. And if they don't want to risk it, they can just wait to reach the required level to build the item they want with 100% success rate.

 

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Personally i like this because it gives people the freedom of choice, and I like choices. If you're someone like Hrot who hates randomness, you could still wait until level "whatever" until you have a 100% chance to build "whatever" you want to build and not take a chance that you could fail at lower levels. Or you could try building something at a lower level even if you might fail. To mitigate the failing at stuff you could just say you only lose a percentage of things, like a couple planks, instead of all the resources. Just as you could build a crappy wall now, and later go and chop the wall down and get some of your materials back and build a nicer wall when your level was higher.

 

Essentially I always like stuff like this which adds more elements of choices. That way even if you dont want to risk it at lower levels, you dont have to. And if you want to try at lower levels, you can.

 

This reminded me of one suggestion I forgot... why dont we get resources for breaking stuff down with a sledge hammer? *goes to make a post about that*

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Personally i like this because it gives people the freedom of choice, and I like choices. If you're someone like Hrot who hates randomness, you could still wait until level "whatever" until you have a 100% chance to build "whatever" you want to build and not take a chance that you could fail at lower levels. Or you could try building something at a lower level even if you might fail. To mitigate the failing at stuff you could just say you only lose a percentage of things, like a couple planks, instead of all the resources. Just as you could build a crappy wall now, and later go and chop the wall down and get some of your materials back and build a nicer wall when your level was higher.

 

Essentially I always like stuff like this which adds more elements of choices. That way even if you dont want to risk it at lower levels, you dont have to. And if you want to try at lower levels, you can.

 

This reminded me of one suggestion I forgot... why dont we get resources for breaking stuff down with a sledge hammer? *goes to make a post about that*

I like randomness.

 

What I dont like is a system that makes you lose your non-renovable resources when you fail.

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Personally i like this because it gives people the freedom of choice, and I like choices. If you're someone like Hrot who hates randomness, you could still wait until level "whatever" until you have a 100% chance to build "whatever" you want to build and not take a chance that you could fail at lower levels. Or you could try building something at a lower level even if you might fail. To mitigate the failing at stuff you could just say you only lose a percentage of things, like a couple planks, instead of all the resources. Just as you could build a crappy wall now, and later go and chop the wall down and get some of your materials back and build a nicer wall when your level was higher.

 

Essentially I always like stuff like this which adds more elements of choices. That way even if you dont want to risk it at lower levels, you dont have to. And if you want to try at lower levels, you can.

 

This reminded me of one suggestion I forgot... why dont we get resources for breaking stuff down with a sledge hammer? *goes to make a post about that*

I like randomness.

 

What I dont like is a system that makes you lose your non-renovable resources when you fail.

 

But there's already such systems in game. For example repairing weapons. You lose non-renewable materials (eg. Duct tape, glue etc.) and you have a chance of failing and it even increases every time. The difference would be that you could do that to carpentry if you wanted to, before you're normally able. So no one's making you lose those resources, if you don't want to. I consider it trading resources for xp or recipes.

 

If you're saying that it'd not be good because you feel you'd be forced to take that choice then we have a different matter and I totally understand. But if a feature is totally optional and only encourages risk managing, I personally don't see the problem. It gives extra reward for using supplies and I don't quite see the harm in that.

 

EDIT: I like this idea, but I'd be willing to limit the lost materials to "renewable" or "unlimited" ones like logs and planks, if losing the items would bother too many people. Eg. you could fail at building a rainbarrel and would get back the nails and maybe a/the garbage bag(s), but not the planks.

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If you're saying that it'd not be good because you feel you'd be forced to take that choice then we have a different matter and I totally understand. But if a feature is totally optional and only encourages risk managing, I personally don't see the problem. It gives extra reward for using supplies and I don't quite see the harm in that.

 

EDIT: I like this idea, but I'd be willing to limit the lost materials to "renewable" or "unlimited" ones like logs and planks, if losing the items would bother too many people. Eg. you could fail at building a rainbarrel and would get back the nails and maybe a/the garbage bag(s), but not the planks.

 

The problem is that the current gameplay would almost force you to risk these resources if you implement such option, because unless you change the settings, electricity and water stop very earlier in the game, long before you could really master the skills for the said items.

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Actually I dont think anything could "force" you to change anything since you would still master them at the same level as before, that would still be a choice you could make. Do you control yourself and wait until youve mastered it enough to build something without risk? Or do you try anyway now that it would be an "option" to? And I dont find it that hard to get my carpentry up before the power and such is done. All I do is go get some carpentry books [also based on RNG] cut a bunch of trees, saw them and stock up a bunch of planks until I get my carpentry to like 2 or 3. Sawing gives decent exp to carpentry, its weird that destroying things doesnt give any though. Then I build some shelves for extra storage in my safe house since it takes a very small amount of materials to build it, and bam I get to build at least the small water collection barrels in almost no time if I want.

 

But since I usually still have electricity at this time I work on other projects, like building a fence of "walls" as an outter wall so I have room for a garden. Walls level you up pretty quickly too I think. Now this is all relevant to what perks you pick at the beggining I guess, like if you start with something that gives you a bonus to carpentry since that depends on how fast you level normally. But hey if you had to you could barricade one board and unbarricade it over and over to level at a cost of nails if you only needed to level a little bit. I try and not do that though since it wastes a lot of nails...

 

Also maybe its just me but I dont like building the crappy first tier walls either so I wait a bit for walls. I just think they look tacky and ugly. Again nothing "forces" me to build the first tier walls, and if I "decide" I should start on walls earlier than I like I can. Its a choice after all too, and no different that what the OP was suggesting.

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