Vegan Trait

[SarkasticGamer]

Originally suggested during http://www.twitch.tv/lidulsali Stream.

 

The Vegan would have been off meat for a long time therefore the sudden sharp meat tastes could make the player sick.

 

It could give the player 4 points (Obviously not up to me)

 

There could also be a vegetarian option for those who feel vegan is too hardcore which gives half the points and only makes the player angry/upset when they have to eat meat.

[ZombieGrinder]

I'm not sure, it doesn't add anything to the game IMHO..

[SarkasticGamer]

It's a new harder dynamic, for people like me who like to have a challenge.

[Ontogenesis]

I think even the most hardcore vegan would probably give it up in the face of starvation... Certain food intolerances, however...

[Suomiboi]

Could be a -1 trait and contribute to unhappiness. But I'm more with Onto, in that allergies and intolerances should rather be a thing.

[Kajin]

I can imagine a Vegan or Vegetarian gaining unhappiness from eating meat or meat products, but I doubt it'd limit their consumption of it entirely.

[jefferyharrell]

That's not really a trait, but rather a roleplaying choice on the part of the player. It's like saying "On this character I will only use knives." You don't get a gameplay bonus for choosing only to use knives. That's just something you decide to do on your own.

 

A trait is something intrinsic and unavoidable. Being deaf is a trait. Not eating pork chops is a choice.

[Kajin]

It's only a roleplaying choice if the mechanics for it do not exist in the game. If the devs do choose to add a Vegan or Vegetarian trait that makes a character unhappy from eating meat then that's perfectly fine. Depending on how easy it is to acquire fruits and vegetables it might not give you a whole lot of points, but it'd still be a character trait with real consequences if added. I don't see how that's a problem.

[jefferyharrell]

It's only a roleplaying choice if the mechanics for it do not exist in the game. If the devs do choose to add a Vegan or Vegetarian trait that makes a character unhappy from eating meat then that's perfectly fine. Depending on how easy it is to acquire fruits and vegetables it might not give you a whole lot of points, but it'd still be a character trait with real consequences if added. I don't see how that's a problem.

 

It's not a PROBLEM, per se. It's just a poor design choice. Like I said, it's not a trait. Traits are intrinsic things. Giving characters a favorite color would make more sense than this, and that wouldn't be a very good idea at all.

[Kajin]

A favorite color wouldn't have any impact on your character. Limiting them to a specific type of food with penalties if they eat something forbidden DOES impact your character. It means that they cannot partake in anything but fruits and vegetables without taking a penalty for it, in this case a hit to happiness that makes them depressed. How does that have no impact? How is that not intrinsic? How is that a poor design choice?!

 

A trait is something you take to give your character an advantage or a disadvantage. This is a disadvantage. It's not a huge disadvantage by any stretch of the imagination but it'd still be worth a pittance in points for other traits. I'm really having a hard time  seeing why you're against it.

[Jatta Pake]

I see it from another perspective and agree it is a bad design choice. The way it is described as being implemented could also apply to many other belief systems. And you wouldn't want a game calling out a player's belief system as a "negative" trait.

What do you mean Orthodox Jewish is a negative trait????

But but but but you become unhappy when not keeping Kosher....

It's a cool RPG element but questionable from a game design perspective.

[jefferyharrell]

Limiting them to a specific type of food with penalties if they eat something forbidden

 

So there should be a "Muslim" trait that makes a character panic if he sees bacon? Of course not. Vegetarians don't have a disorder. They just make choices. Traits aren't there to enforce choices.

 

Edited March 13, 2015 by kirrus
Be Lovely.

[Lux]

as a vegetarian i find this kinda insulting. we aren't just people that don't like meat, there's a lot more to it. there's an overweight choice, even an obese choice, i could make the same argument you're making by saying a zombie apocalypse would change their eating habits, but it wouldn't. eating habits are instilled into our brain, hence the word habit. it isn't always a choice. 

[jefferyharrell]

as a vegetarian i find this kinda insulting.

 

I speak only for myself, but I am extremely confident that nobody meant it that way.

 

To be fair, though, when people talk about vegetarianism they're not using the phrase "eating habit" in the neurological sense of habituation. Vegetarians don't eat involuntarily.

[CzarUltra]

Reminds me of the challenges in nethack for when you die. You could just roleplay as a vegan and as long as you stuck to the code, it could calculate your vegan run into your end score when you die

[Suomiboi]

 

Limiting them to a specific type of food with penalties if they eat something forbidden

 

So there should be a "Muslim" trait that makes a character panic if he sees bacon? Of course not. Vegetarians don't have a disorder. They just make choices. Traits aren't there to enforce choices.

There could be a muslim trait that has a happiness reduction to eating bacon... (but imo religions are a bit more sensitive subjects, so shouldn't necessarily be introduced because of that) You're comparing apples to oranges when you're comparing happiness to panic in this situation... Also a bit hyperbole.

 

My friend, who's a vegetarian, was very upset when she involuntarily ate a dish that had meat in when no one had told about it. She chose to eat it, (without knowing it was meat) but none-the-less was upset because she ate it. So infact almost exactly what we have here.

 

I don't get what you mean by saying that "traits aren't there to enforce choices". Why not? An agoraphobic trait enforces a choice in a similar way as a vegetarian. It causes a negative effect when you're outside although a more severe one. It's a gameplay addition that enforces you to choose to stay inside more. It doesn't force you to do that.

 

I see it from another perspective and agree it is a bad design choice. The way it is described as being implemented could also apply to many other belief systems. And you wouldn't want a game calling out a player's belief system as a "negative" trait.

What do you mean Orthodox Jewish is a negative trait????

But but but but you become unhappy when not keeping Kosher....

It's a cool RPG element but questionable from a game design perspective.

But an obese is a negative trait and it is a belief for some. There are people who are obese and proud of it and are so by choice... You have to understand that the points are given in regards of the situation, which is survival in an apocalypse. You could also add in a devout trait that adds a positive effect to panic and say that it represents the good points of the religion, whichever you choose... But again, religion is imo a lot more touchy subject.

[Kirrus]

Moderator Warning

The next time someone isn't lovely in this thread, it will get locked.

 

Seriously, please be lovely. Or Else.

[Jatta Pake]

I hope no one took offense to my comment. If so, I sincerely apologize.

 

I think the challenge with a trait like "Vegan", similar to a religious trait, is that it isn't inherently negative in the zombie apocalypse. I mean it could be, as in the scenarios mentioned above, but it could also be a source of great internal strength for the character. History is filled with people who confronted existential threats but found survival from within from their own cultural/belief systems. You could also argue that a Vegan trait would have a positive health trait modifier.

 

At any rate, I'd love to see mods that included zero sum traits, meaning traits that do not give or take away points. A Vegan Trait could cause unhappiness with eating meat but provide a health bonus or a higher base happiness level.

[MrZombifiedGamer]

First I would like to get this out of the way. As a meat eater I think the whole conversation has moved into a slightly insulting way. I don't see a problem with a vegan and or vegetarian trait. Although, I also don't really think it's necessary. At the end of the day in crisis situations vegans and vegetarians do what they must to survive or they die. That's the simple fact of the matter. 

 

In my opinion it would be a lot more logical just to use a pacifist trait that adds depression when killing animals. Maybe an animal lover trait that has a negative choice as well as a positive one both with their own individual effects. But at the end of the day the vegans and vegetarians that refuse to eat what they obtain will simply die. It takes forever to farm and unless they stole fruit and veggies but even then it would be contradictory to the whole concept behind vegetarianism/veganism. 

 

At the end of the day it's up to the devs and we should really learn to respect each other and stop putting each other down. This is a perfect example of why some people *still* haven't learned that catastrophe's are only survived by mutual respect and agreement that it's better to work together than fight with each other.

[Spazmatic]

I support this idea.

@bleachstorm

There is already "Pacifist" trait...

[Rass]

I'm not sure, it doesn't add anything to the game IMHO..

Variety. The reason why everyone is so excited about the new traits and professions.

I think that this is a great idea. Having so many traits that you can basically make YOURSELF ingame is amazing, the only danger is that certain traits end up being useless and cookiecutter builds will prevail. But I don't think that I've seen any build (except for the adrenalin junkie build) being copypasted ever since 31 trait revamp, something that can't be said about the previous trait/profession system.

[Disgruntled]

Honestly I cant see it being worthy of a trait,  as a vegan I can say that i'd have way bigger things on my mind in a zombie apocalypse.

Probably the biggest affect it would have is meybe a bit of indigestion for meybe the first week as the body adjusts,  but wouldnt that be true of anyone, its not like a typical meat eater is gonna be accustomed to the diet of a zombie survivalist

[ZombieGrinder]

 

I'm not sure, it doesn't add anything to the game IMHO..

Variety. The reason why everyone is so excited about the new traits and professions.

I think that this is a great idea. Having so many traits that you can basically make YOURSELF ingame is amazing, the only danger is that certain traits end up being useless and cookiecutter builds will prevail. But I don't think that I've seen any build (except for the adrenalin junkie build) being copypasted ever since 31 trait revamp, something that can't be said about the previous trait/profession system.

 

Right, but I don't see how/why in a zombie apocalypse someone would be picky on what they eat. 'cause if you don't eat what you find well..you die. It just doesn't make sense to me..

Intolleance/allergies I think are more reasonable..

[Rass]

Right, but I don't see how/why in a zombie apocalypse someone would be picky on what they eat. 'cause if you don't eat what you find well..you die. It just doesn't make sense to me..

Intolleance/allergies I think are more reasonable..

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean that the player shouldn't be able to eat meat or other animal related products, I just think that it should make you unhappy. That works, right? If someone is a vegetarian because of animal abuse, they probably aren't going to be thrilled that they have to eat meat.

[ZombieGrinder]

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean that the player shouldn't be able to eat meat or other animal related products, I just think that it should make you unhappy. That works, right? If someone is a vegetarian because of animal abuse, they probably aren't going to be thrilled that they have to eat meat.

 

Mmmm.. in a zombie apocalypse, "animal abuse" isn't exaclty what I think will make you unhappy, since you probably had to kill your wife/kids/parents/neighbours in order to survive the frist days.

 

BUT I think it could work just fine, if people like it..