Risk of suicide (this is almost certainly too dark for this game, and may even be offensive)
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I'm just gonna blurt it out: At the maximum level of depression (which should be really hard to achieve; more on this in a moment) I suggest that there should be a chance that the player character will, if the means are at hand, spontaneously commit suicide.

 

What I'm imagining here is a depression moodle that's nearly impossible to achieve without actively trying, that that nearly anything will temporarily relieve: reading a skill book, eating, going outside, taking a nap, talking to another character in the game (PC in multiplayer, NPC eventually in single- or multiplayer), whatever. But if the player character gets that moodle and keeps it long enough, there's an increasing chance of self-harm if the necessary item or items are in his inventory: a loaded firearm, sleeping tablets, bleach, et cetera.

 

If it's so hard to get in that state and so easy to get out of it, what's the point of having it in the first place? This: withdrawal from antidepressants. It's been said before, including in today's Mondoid, that there might be a dependence mechanic added to the game, and of course antidepressants are there already. Antidepressants are also in finite supply; a fixed amount is created at worldgen and there can never, ever be any more. Getting dependent on them should be scary because getting off them once dependent on them would be difficult and dangerous in the Zomboid world.

 

If this offends anybody, I sincerely apologize. I was inspired by something that happened to a friend of a friend recently. I'm not trying to be insensitive. Quite the opposite.

 

Anyway, it's just a thought. Please don't hate me.

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It's called drinking bleach and this suggestion goes against the core fundamentals that the developers have in mind while making this game. Not that I pretend to speak for the developers, but I've been following the game for over a year now, and I am sure they are completely against an arbitrary and "gamey" kill switch such as what you are suggesting. Just clarifying.

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I can second Spaniard's comment.

While the option to commit suicide (or 'sewey' as we like to call it) is already available, and can be as creative you like - after all the game is trying to get you killed - any gameplay with consequence that the player cannot directly control is a BIG no-no in any survival game.

 

I'm not sure the Devs have weighed in on it themselves specifically, but the discussion has arisen many times before in various suggestions (having actions performed on the player, without their control), and it's usually ended up the single most deciding factor as to why a suggestion shouldn't be implemented.

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I get that, I think. But in my mind, as I imagine it, it's more akin to dying of starvation than "any gameplay with consequence that the player cannot directly control," to borrow your phrase. If you don't keep your character fed, he dies. That's a core game mechanic. If you don't keep your character emotionally fed, he can die too. That's how I imagined it.

 

But I'm totally open to the possibility that it's just a bad idea.

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anti depressants usually dont have much withdrawal. ones like prozac build up over months and exit over months. others like venaflaxine are short acting but withdrawal isnt exactly what id call it when you dont take it (i take it but have bouts where i dont take meds). suicide is definitely a choice. If you're depressed its certainly more tempting, but its not gonna take over one day and make you kill yourself. its a choice. starving to death isnt a choice. you cant be depressed to death. someone can be severely depressed and still posses an amazing will to live

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Depression should just make it harder to sleep and, when NPCS are added, negative social effects. If it did anything else it would either be misrepresenting depression or taking control from the player (god forbid that happened!). Lack of sleep alone should have enough negative effects to make depression worth avoiding in my opinion.

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Depression should just make it harder to sleep and, when NPCS are added, negative social effects. If it did anything else it would either be misrepresenting depression or taking control from the player (god forbid that happened!). Lack of sleep alone should have enough negative effects to make depression worth avoiding in my opinion.

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Depression should just make it harder to sleep and, when NPCS are added, negative social effects. If it did anything else it would either be misrepresenting depression or taking control from the player (god forbid that happened!). Lack of sleep alone should have enough negative effects to make depression worth avoiding in my opinion.

Depression more commonly inflicts hypersomnia rather than insomnia. 

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I'm not sure if i want this implemented.. I mean, what if i go to do something else and forget to pause the game, and just come again to see that my character just committed suicide? I mean, I am pretty awesome ( 8-)), but still, people shouldn't kill themselves over my absence.

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I'm not sure if i want this implemented.. I mean, what if i go to do something else and forget to pause the game, and just come again to see that my character just committed suicide? I mean, I am pretty awesome ( 8-)), but still, people shouldn't kill themselves over my absence.

 

From that point of view, though, would it be significantly different from coming back to find your character had died of dehydration, or been eaten by an unseen wandering zombie?

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I'm not sure if i want this implemented.. I mean, what if i go to do something else and forget to pause the game, and just come again to see that my character just committed suicide? I mean, I am pretty awesome ( 8-)), but still, people shouldn't kill themselves over my absence.

 

From that point of view, though, would it be significantly different from coming back to find your character had died of dehydration, or been eaten by an unseen wandering zombie?

 

Nice point, but i pass most of my in-game time REALLY depressed because i cant find anti depressants anywhere, and i live out of butter and potatoes. Mostly butter.

 

I think as suicide is the choice of the character and the character is mine, i should have the choice. The game actually DRIVES you in some situations, even pumping you up with the ambience and sounds, and i'm sure i'm not the only one.

And as i might not be the only one, people would differ in the times to suicide or even thinking about suiciding. Setting a singular time for suicide (Highest depression cap) could make some people angry.

 

I also believe this game is sometime gonna turn into a horror-style, actually scaring you off your sh*t when zombies approach you. That would make suicide an incredibly realistic, and still a very practical implementation.

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I'm not sure if i want this implemented.. I mean, what if i go to do something else and forget to pause the game, and just come again to see that my character just committed suicide? I mean, I am pretty awesome ( 8-)), but still, people shouldn't kill themselves over my absence.

 

From that point of view, though, would it be significantly different from coming back to find your character had died of dehydration, or been eaten by an unseen wandering zombie?

 

Nice point, but i pass most of my in-game time REALLY depressed because i cant find anti depressants anywhere, and i live out of butter and potatoes. Mostly butter.

 

I think as suicide is the choice of the character and the character is mine, i should have the choice. The game actually DRIVES you in some situations, even pumping you up with the ambience and sounds, and i'm sure i'm not the only one.

And as i might not be the only one, people would differ in the times to suicide or even thinking about suiciding. Setting a singular time for suicide (Highest depression cap) could make some people angry.

 

I also believe this game is sometime gonna turn into a horror-style, actually scaring you off your sh*t when zombies approach you. That would make suicide an incredibly realistic, and still a very practical implementation.

 

i second that 

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I'm not sure if i want this implemented.. I mean, what if i go to do something else and forget to pause the game, and just come again to see that my character just committed suicide? I mean, I am pretty awesome ( 8-)), but still, people shouldn't kill themselves over my absence.

 

From that point of view, though, would it be significantly different from coming back to find your character had died of dehydration, or been eaten by an unseen wandering zombie?

 

Nice point, but i pass most of my in-game time REALLY depressed because i cant find anti depressants anywhere, and i live out of butter and potatoes. Mostly butter.

 

I think as suicide is the choice of the character and the character is mine, i should have the choice. The game actually DRIVES you in some situations, even pumping you up with the ambience and sounds, and i'm sure i'm not the only one.

And as i might not be the only one, people would differ in the times to suicide or even thinking about suiciding. Setting a singular time for suicide (Highest depression cap) could make some people angry.

 

I also believe this game is sometime gonna turn into a horror-style, actually scaring you off your sh*t when zombies approach you. That would make suicide an incredibly realistic, and still a very practical implementation.

 

 

I don't disagree with any of that.

 

Here's my question, then: How do we make the depression mechanic meaningful in the game, and also scary? I think depression should be a threat to survival just like starvation is. How can that be implemented?

 

(I'm not getting huffy and saying "Fine, you figure it out then." I'm sincerely asking.)

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I'm not sure if i want this implemented.. I mean, what if i go to do something else and forget to pause the game, and just come again to see that my character just committed suicide? I mean, I am pretty awesome ( 8-)), but still, people shouldn't kill themselves over my absence.

 

From that point of view, though, would it be significantly different from coming back to find your character had died of dehydration, or been eaten by an unseen wandering zombie?

 

Nice point, but i pass most of my in-game time REALLY depressed because i cant find anti depressants anywhere, and i live out of butter and potatoes. Mostly butter.

 

I think as suicide is the choice of the character and the character is mine, i should have the choice. The game actually DRIVES you in some situations, even pumping you up with the ambience and sounds, and i'm sure i'm not the only one.

And as i might not be the only one, people would differ in the times to suicide or even thinking about suiciding. Setting a singular time for suicide (Highest depression cap) could make some people angry.

 

I also believe this game is sometime gonna turn into a horror-style, actually scaring you off your sh*t when zombies approach you. That would make suicide an incredibly realistic, and still a very practical implementation.

 

 

I don't disagree with any of that.

 

Here's my question, then: How do we make the depression mechanic meaningful in the game, and also scary? I think depression should be a threat to survival just like starvation is. How can that be implemented?

 

(I'm not getting huffy and saying "Fine, you figure it out then." I'm sincerely asking.)

 

Depression is already a threat. The time you take to do an action is ridiculous if you're depressed, and if you're depressed in an extreme situation, it can cause your death.

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Depression should just make it harder to sleep and, when NPCS are added, negative social effects. If it did anything else it would either be misrepresenting depression or taking control from the player (god forbid that happened!). Lack of sleep alone should have enough negative effects to make depression worth avoiding in my opinion.

Depression more commonly inflicts hypersomnia rather than insomnia. 

Fine, whatever.  That then.  Not my point.  The point is - and I've argued in the past at great lengths with other members and mods alike - there is no way there is ever going to be anything that will take control out of the players hands like spontaneous suicide.  I argued thinking it should be in the game and they shot me down time and time again.  I think what I described is pretty much all there should be.  

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there is no way there is ever going to be anything that will take control out of the players hands

 

Except, you know, getting turned into a zombie.

 

My point is that these things lie on a spectrum. They're not black and white. When you're talking about an everything-is-trying-to-kill-you survival game, there is naturally going to be a very wide variety of game-losing conditions.

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Suicide in-game is an interesting mechanic that I personally think should be explored further for the sake of both roleplay and generally cool, final moments, however I don't like the aspect of it happening by means that are out of the player's hands. If I can't find a means of getting rid of depression, I don't want my character killing himself. I'd like to be the one in control of that, though that's just my view. 

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I am all in favour of the player character committing suicide. The idea is unfortunately too unpopular to ever be in the game.

 

I think I presented the idea poorly. A lot of the response has been along the lines of "your character shouldn't die because of something you can't control," but I really see my idea as being more akin to death by starvation, which is already a totally non-controversial game mechanic. I'm not saying my idea is the best and the critics are idiots; farthest thing from it. I'm just saying that I think it's possible that my idea isn't quite as bad as some have thought.

 

I'm really not married to it, though. It was just a suggestion.

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I think the bleach option is fine, wanna die? Do it that way. However, I do like the idea of dependency if you get addicted to painkillers, anti'ds etc. I take antidepressants, and while I wouldn't say I'm addicted, I can feel slightly ill if I don't take them, so obviously in higher doses this would happen.

Also, sorry to bring up the elephant in the room, but will NPCs be able to kill themselves? Would be annoying to return with a bag full of much needed food to find your colony has topped themselves!

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Many people here claim that suicide shouldn't be implemented because it's a negative mechanic that the player can't control. I agree that you shouldn't, for example, randomly get injured while cooking, but I don't think that suicide falls under this category. While random injuries when doing certain tasks are, well, random, suicide would work as the final effect of a moodle progressively getting worse and worse, much like hunger, thirst, bleeding or fever. You have complete control over this-Don't wanna commict suicide? Don't let your character get bored, sad and finally depressed.

And why would I like suicide to be implemented, what does it add to the game? I think that at the moment, events in the game don't have enough of an effect on the character's psyche. Since boredom and depression don't really do much, the character's encounters with the postapocalyptic world don't seem to have that much of a lasting impact.

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