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Views on recreational drug use


Jonientz

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Curious as to peoples view on it? I've posted to erowid but it was quite obvious what the response was. Personally I think it's everybody's right to put what they want into their body. I'd love to have a debate if anyone would have it.

I do not condone illicit drug use despite my view, as its still illegal.

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Drugs are cool once in a while. Almost all drugs are alright if done in a safe environment with safe product and done moderately.

So I don't have any issue with stuff like weed, shrooms, LSD, cocaine, ect. You just need to be smart, know your limit and not get your shit from someone you don't know in the back alley of a Walmart.

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I can co-exist with them, just keep 'em away from me. Marijuana is basically just another form of tobacco in my book, maybe even a little safer. The only exception to this is meth, which to me seems just completely ridiculous, much like drinking bleach.  :P

Keep it safe, keep it clean, don't OD, and you're fine.

 

 

 

 

 

But for the sake of my Social and Political Integrity, I do not condone or endorse the use of drugs for recreational purposes, and I am not affiliated with the FDA, FBI, CIA, or other government agencies.

 

(P.S. That almost sounded intelligent. Too bad I was just spitting it out. :D)

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Well its a tricky subject. Whilst the prevailing opinion is clearly one where people should understand their bodies and know what chemical stresses they can put on their bodies and if its not harming anyone then no foul, the truth is that in practice this is clearly not working.

To put it bluntly people are dumb. If you give them the right and ability to give them whatever drugs they want it WILL be abused. Anyone with the modicum of knowledge about people who have been addicted to drugs including the most common and easily available one (alcohol) realise that they become a sort of raging monster. Giving everyone the right to do whatever they want drugwise would make problems of addiction more prevalent.

Maybe some sort of test that people undertake to get given the right to abuse their bodies the way they want is the way to go.

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I personally can't care for it, if you want to go injecting whatever-the-hell you want into yourself, go ahead!

As-long as you don't shove it in my face, you could be smoking ground puppy bones for all I care.

Well thats the problem Kitt - using your hypothetical situation of smoking ground puppy bones and speaking in the metaphorical case of being a ground puppy bone addict I will simply start stealing puppies to fund my addiction. It doesn't matter whose puppies I'm stealing and you might make the case that as long as its not YOUR puppies I'm stealing then that's ok but someone IS suffering for it.

 

Now as for some hippy type growing pot in their attic and selling it on the side, I have no problem with that but the shit tons of Vietnamese stuff we get in the UK usually goes through Burma and that place is a slice of hell on Earth. The big drugs have hideous production methods involving slavery, murder and grooming people into lives dependent on the drug. You might think that a little wrap of coke for £50 is ok and hey-ho it makes for a great night but the truth is is that people have probably bled for that tiny wrap and are willing to kill for that £50.

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I personally can't care for it, if you want to go injecting whatever-the-hell you want into yourself, go ahead!

As-long as you don't shove it in my face, you could be smoking ground puppy bones for all I care.

Well thats the problem Kitt - using your hypothetical situation of smoking ground puppy bones and speaking in the metaphorical case of being a ground puppy bone addict I will simply start stealing puppies to fund my addiction. It doesn't matter whose puppies I'm stealing and you might make the case that as long as its not YOUR puppies I'm stealing then that's ok but someone IS suffering for it.

 

Now as for some hippy type growing pot in their attic and selling it on the side, I have no problem with that but the shit tons of Vietnamese stuff we get in the UK usually goes through Burma and that place is a slice of hell on Earth. The big drugs have hideous production methods involving slavery, murder and grooming people into lives dependent on the drug. You might think that a little wrap of coke for £50 is ok and hey-ho it makes for a great night but the truth is is that people have probably bled for that tiny wrap and are willing to kill for that £50.

 

Yes and this has nothing to do with the drugs themselves but the drug war. Drugs are not responsible. If drugs were readily accessible, taxed, and drug addicts rehabilitated instead of imprisoned things would be different. Just look at prohibition, the prohibition of alcohol created a huge black market in bootlegging, and the same thing is happening/has happened with the drug war. Make drugs legal and that black market crumbles in all those parts of the world that make/grow/manufacture drugs just to sell them in the US.

 

Let's also not ignore the fact that some of the most destructive, addictive, and damaging drugs are already legal in the US. Alcohol, tobacco, and so many narcotics legal in pill form (not to mention speed and dissociative drugs). The United States' means of categorizing and putting labels on drugs is based on politics and not reality (for instance, Marijuana is categorized as a narcotic, which it isn't). There's so much wrong with our handling of drugs, but none of it has to do with the actual drug abusers. People are going to drugs and, instead of demonizing and ostracizing them, we should take care of them and help them like patients with a medical condition. And addiction is most certainly a medical condition.

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Whilst I am sure that there are certainly people who don't abuse drugs, the fact remains that addiction to drugs is a big problem that will only get worse if drugs are freely available and with no legal restrictions on them even if people are properly coached on their dangers. I have seen people steal to fund a drink habit and some of my friends were forced to steal money to pay back coke dealers who would have if not killed then seriously injured them. I don't see this changing much except that instead of coke dealers it'll change to a debt collector taking belongings and issuing CCJs instead of breaking legs. I don't really see a huge difference.

 

I've made this point in the past which is that unofficially most modern police forces usually turn a blind eye to recreational drug use providing its not harming people. Most times I've seen people get arrested by the fuzz for drug use is when they are pulled over and questioned for doing something that attracts a policemans attention such as being loud, getting in fights or just generally being lairy or obviously being a twat. Once pulled aside and searched and offending materials found THEN they are done for drugs because being done for that is more likely to cause an arrest to go through than being disorderly or loud. In anycase the police usually tend to focus on the suppliers of drugs rather than users so being a recreational user isn't such a problem. 

 

Please bear in mind that not all police officers are this altruistic but on the whole most police tend to realise that drugs are a fact of life these days so are far more casual these days then in the past.

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Whilst I am sure that there are certainly people who don't abuse drugs, the fact remains that addiction to drugs is a big problem that will only get worse if drugs are freely available and with no legal restrictions on them even if people are properly coached on their dangers. I have seen people steal to fund a drink habit and some of my friends were forced to steal money to pay back coke dealers who would have if not killed then seriously injured them. I don't see this changing much except that instead of coke dealers it'll change to a debt collector taking belongings and issuing CCJs instead of breaking legs. I don't really see a huge difference.

 

I've made this point in the past which is that unofficially most modern police forces usually turn a blind eye to recreational drug use providing its not harming people. Most times I've seen people get arrested by the fuzz for drug use is when they are pulled over and questioned for doing something that attracts a policemans attention such as being loud, getting in fights or just generally being lairy or obviously being a twat. Once pulled aside and searched and offending materials found THEN they are done for drugs because being done for that is more likely to cause an arrest to go through than being disorderly or loud. In anycase the police usually tend to focus on the suppliers of drugs rather than users so being a recreational user isn't such a problem. 

 

Please bear in mind that not all police officers are this altruistic but on the whole most police tend to realise that drugs are a fact of life these days so are far more casual these days then in the past.

The point isn't that there are people that don't do drugs, the point is that the drug war solves no real problem. It only exasperates the problem of drug usage. Also, if you treat people as addicts instead of jail them, you will have less people in prison, less violent crime, and more people that can take back control of their lives. Also, per my experience with the law enforcement, considering they get paid for meeting a quota, I've seen cops go out of their to bust drug abusers.

 

Actually, if you look at prison statistics in the United States and how many non violent offenders are in prison for longer time than rapists and murderers, you will see that your statement that cops are pretty "relaxed" on drug abusers is so far off point that it's not even funny.

 

Not only do most cops actively go after drug users but judges will give out insane sentences to drug offenders, sometimes even worse than what a rapist or murderer might get. The war on Drug is broken and our relationship with drugs is completely twisted, sick, and full of shit. The way we treat drug addicts of illegal substances is horrible and done with this fatalistic attitude that we can't help these people. Law enforcement and judges are really, for the most part, the largest perpetrators of this bad treatment. You look at our handling of drugs on every level and you will see a fundamental corruption that has nothing to do with keeping the general populace safe. IT's all about power, and putting money in the hand of powerful men.  It's really gross.

 

Our doctors purposefully over prescribe and shove legal drugs down the throats of people that trust them. These patients trust their doctors, not knowing that they are purposefully made dependent on these health destroying drugs just so that Doctor can keep being sponsored by a pharmaceutical company. Our law enforcement hunts down and jails sick people, and our prison system imprisons more people than any other country on Earth. To defend the war on drugs, with all that we know in the year 2015, is complete and utter madness.

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Ah well im talking of life in the UK so I cant really talk for the US - from my perspective it seems the US has a completely separate problem in that its arrest method and general approach to policing is based on faulty way out of date methods. Its a throwback to the bad old days when they had the entire emigrating class of Europe arriving on its doorstep and its lingered through to the present day. Americans for some reason seem to think up laws that cause nice normal people to turn into criminals when the correct approach is to create laws that cause criminals to turn into nice normal people.

 

For some interesting reading on the subject look at Theodore Roosevelt's attempts to reform New York's police department back when he was commissioner there. The police had an "arrest now, beat the confession out of you and get a judge to throw you into Sing-Sing" approach which he spent untold energy trying to get that attitude out of the department.

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Marijuana is currently the only illegal drug I'd say should actually be legalized. It's not even as bad as tobacco and alcohol in terms of potential personal and societal damage. But a lot of the other drugs that are illegal are that way for a reason. They're too harmful or too addictive (or both) to allow people easy access to them. It would destroy their lives and the lives of the people around them. I've seen it enough times to know the outcome of those particular stories.

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Ah well im talking of life in the UK so I cant really talk for the US - from my perspective it seems the US has a completely separate problem in that its arrest method and general approach to policing is based on faulty way out of date methods. Its a throwback to the bad old days when they had the entire emigrating class of Europe arriving on its doorstep and its lingered through to the present day. Americans for some reason seem to think up laws that cause nice normal people to turn into criminals when the correct approach is to create laws that cause criminals to turn into nice normal people.

 

For some interesting reading on the subject look at Theodore Roosevelt's attempts to reform New York's police department back when he was commissioner there. The police had an "arrest now, beat the confession out of you and get a judge to throw you into Sing-Sing" approach which he spent untold energy trying to get that attitude out of the department.

As a dual citizen I have an unique perspective, I am both a citizen of Spain and a citizen of the United States. Prohibition doesn't work, regardless of where you live, but I am using the United States as a model as I have been since my first post because the US leads the way in this category. If the US changed the way of dealing with drugs, things would be much different, and there would be less of a reason to keep up this charade that prohibition somehow works. It's a lot like in Europe where there was this claim that "austerity measures" were the right way to deal with the 2008 financial crisis, contrary to economics 101, caused by the derivative loaning that started in the US, and reverberated throughout the world's economic markets.

I am in no way suggesting that laws turn people bad, but laws can definitely target and oppress specific groups of people. The current drug laws oppress drug addicts and exasperates the problem of drug use. And besides making the matter worse, it creates a black market, which invariably creates crime, unsafe doses, etc . . . Change the drug laws, legalize drugs, and control the supply. It would benefit society as a whole, and in all aspects. I am saying nothing new, we know prohibition doesn't work, and if you know the history(which I don't care to lay out at the moment) you will see that the illegality of certain drugs is motivated by politics and not motivated by the tenant of improving society as a whole. That's just the reality about the global war on drugs; it's never been about improving humanity, or about improving the lives of the general populace.

 

 

Marijuana is currently the only illegal drug I'd say should actually be legalized. It's not even as bad as tobacco and alcohol in terms of potential personal and societal damage. But a lot of the other drugs that are illegal are that way for a reason. They're too harmful or too addictive (or both) to allow people easy access to them. It would destroy their lives and the lives of the people around them. I've seen it enough times to know the outcome of those particular stories.

But with this logic, alcohol and tobacco should be illegal because they are more dangerous than many of the drugs that are currently illegal. Many legal drugs are awful for you and purposefully distributed out like candy to get people hooked, just to turn a profit. This problem is rampant; the problem is not so black and white, it requires a comprehensive change and overhaul, first by stopping the harsh sentencing on drug users. In the US, especially, this is true but unfortunately this practice is prevalent across the world (the US is just one of the worst). Doing drugs isn't some death sentence, but treating people that do drugs like animals, is what's wrong with your hypothetical. What destroys the most lives is how we react to drug use, the laws we enact to combat drug use, and our attitude that drug users are animals that offer no function to society.

 

Do you guys not believe in rehabilitation? If not, you should seriously read up on the subject, as there are tried and proven methods to rehabilitate people that have suffered chemical dependence. People that have abused drugs can get their life back in order, but it doesn't happen by throwing them in prison, that makes the problem worse. So please, read what I'm saying, instead of conflating every issue I present.

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Only rehabilitation that worked on my uncle's alcohol addiction was a fatal car crash (for his friend; my uncle was the passenger and lived) followed by a loss some degree of his mental faculties.

So while I understand the whole "drugs should be free, man" pitch . . . there are a lot of people out there with addictive tendencies that can be hurt by that philosophy (perhaps irrevocably).

At the same time, I can't even get a prescription, in New Brunswick, written because I don't currently have a family doctor (and refuse to go to the emergency room for ADD).

*Shrug*

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Only rehabilitation that worked on my uncle's alcohol addiction was a fatal car crash (for his friend; my uncle was the passenger and lived) followed by a loss some degree of his mental faculties.

So while I understand the whole "drugs should be free, man" pitch . . . there are a lot of people out there with addictive tendencies that can be hurt by that philosophy (perhaps irrevocably).

At the same time, I can't even get a prescription, in New Brunswick, written because I don't currently have a family doctor (and refuse to go to the emergency room for ADD).

*Shrug*

Really? The fact you sum up the argument as "drugs should be free, man" means you completely miss the point. They shouldn't be free and I know many people who go through failed rehab but that doesn't suddenly discredit actual rehabilitation clinics. Legalizing consists of regulating (which is the opposite of "Freeing") the drug and then distributing with oversight. Then, people will no longer go to their shady drug dealer to do what they're chemically disposed to do and not likely to be ostracized, offered better care to recover from dependence. I too have family members that have passed from drug abuse but , if anything, my family's and the country's hard stance on drugs led to her death. She never received the proper professional help or support.

 

Anyway, I understand completely why this is an emotional subject, but that doesn't suddenly negate the right or reason to use logic. Generalizing and painting broad strokes doesn't work with such an important topic, and there's no real argument made to not legalize drugs. You can't argue that things will be worse, because drug related crimes, real crimes, will still be prosecutable: unregulated, drug distribution, using drugs on federal/state property, using drugs while operating firearms or machinery, driving while high, etc. SO please, don't add to the overwhelming ignorance that already surrounds this issue by painting a broad, misrepresentation about what people you don't agree with are saying. No one is saying we should, "Free drugs" but make them a health issue and not one that adheres to the judiciary's strict and arbitrarily harsh prejudice on drugs that fuels the ever corroding blight on humanity's history that is the international war on drugs and its beneficiaries.

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Oh, really? So there's going to be a whole regulatory body behind this move, complete with protections for those who will abuse it? Great. I'm sure that'll happen, just as it has for alcohol and tobacco. :-|
 

For someone so upset at my condensing the issue into "drugs should be free," you seem quite ready to tell me what and how I'm allowed to argue.

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"drugs should be free, man"

No one in this thread said this or even implied it.

 

Getting hung up on phrasing (What's the opposite of illegal? Legal/free) and assuming that by giving my own perspective on this that I'm insinuating one of you holds this position.

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Getting hung up on phrasing (What's the opposite of illegal? Legal/free) and assuming that by giving my own perspective on this that I'm insinuating one of you holds this position.

The connotation of the word free in that sentence made it sound like you thought people wanted drugs to be given out for nothing, I don't think I've ever heard anyone use "free" in relation to legalizing something.

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What is the difference between drug abuse and recreational drug use? Is addiction a disease or a lack of self control/utter selfishness? Is altering your mood with chemicals immoral? Is breaking the law (even bad laws) immoral?

I think the original question prompts more questions. My views tend to be paradoxical on this issue. It's not that I am seeing both sides of the issue, I believe logic breaking contradictions in this regard. I've either done too many drugs or not enough.

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Only rehabilitation that worked on my uncle's alcohol addiction was a fatal car crash (for his friend; my uncle was the passenger and lived) followed by a loss some degree of his mental faculties.So while I understand the whole "drugs should be free, man" pitch . . . there are a lot of people out there with addictive tendencies that can be hurt by that philosophy (perhaps irrevocably).At the same time, I can't even get a prescription, in New Brunswick, written because I don't currently have a family doctor (and refuse to go to the emergency room for ADD).*Shrug*

Add meds are usually analogs of amphetamines like Methylphenidate so doctors are hesitant to prescribe it for abuse/addicton. Even with a family psychiatrist she's hesitant to prescribe me a benzodiazepine for panic attacks. Doctors can get their medical license revoked and crap for prescribing too much shit like that, unless its with kids. Ritalin (Methylphenidate) is like candy for kids with ADD.

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What is the difference between drug abuse and recreational drug use? Is addiction a disease or a lack of self control/utter selfishness? Is altering your mood with chemicals immoral? Is breaking the law (even bad laws) immoral?

I think the original question prompts more questions. My views tend to be paradoxical on this issue. It's not that I am seeing both sides of the issue, I believe logic breaking contradictions in this regard. I've either done too many drugs or not enough.

Your view raises good points. My friend smokes pot to manage his depression and schizophrenia. Even drugs like second generation anti psychotics and SSRIS and SNRIS hadn't helped him. Kids who take Ritalin (Methylphenidate,and analog of amphetamines) to manage ADD can get addicted to it and experience withdrawl if they don't wean off it. And for the point of legality and dangerous drugs, tobacco and alcohol being legal and pot not is evidence that business influences these polices. You can't od on pot. You can drop a 170$ on alcohol and literally drink yourself to death. while driving under the influence of pot is just as dangerous as alcohol, if something as awful as alcohol is legal pot not being legal is just silly.

My views are way too out there to ever be implemented though. My ideal views and realistic ones vary. I'd like to see dextromethorphan and pot sold recreationally alongside alcohol and tobacco, and that coming with extensively more education about what the drugs do,side effects and addiction potential. Realistically though,I can hope for relaxing sentences for drug offenders and pot being legal recreationally with minimal education about it other than drugs are bad,mmkay from some drug counselor in school. Cause that never did me jack squat until I got curious and wondered why. Enter the beginning of my research into drugs and my interest into drug interactions in the brain.

On the note of addiction though, the most commonly abused stimulant is caffeine ;p

My apologies if this is formatted oddly. Posted from a windows phone with an outdated OS.

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Another problem that people don't realise is that although they claim legalisation will add cash that can be taxed and money raised used for altruistic purposes like rehab centres and drug training courses and the like; from what I know of governments and my own political experiences with Brighton council (the only Green council in the UK) I really really doubt that this would happen. Or more accurately it would happen for as long as people were paying attention.

Money raised through taxation goes into a big pot that gets used for all sorts of projects. My belief is that if drugs were legalised a big song and dance would be made of some new drug clinics and some new school programs before they were all quietely shelved and the funding pulled the next year.

In short even the Greens in Brighton council have a money first policy and rehab and education programs are usually shelved at the first sign of any trouble.

And although these rehab places do need funding sure, most of them actually need trained people to work in them more than anything. Due to poor political processes many rehab centres just get used as a dumping ground for criminals and used as a sort of soft prison. Don't get me wrong, those rehab centres that work usually perform miracles but there are a lot of them that just go through the motions for funding.

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Marijuana is currently the only illegal drug I'd say should actually be legalized. It's not even as bad as tobacco and alcohol in terms of potential personal and societal damage.

First we had the myth of reefer madness, and now we have the myth of the harmless, non-addictive miracle herb cannabis that's not only fun, but also cures anything from head aches to cancer. While it's most certainly not the worst drug around, it's hardly harmless and non-addictive. In fact here in the Netherlands marijuana seems to be one of the leading causes in drug dependency as only alcohol and heroin users seek help more often. And while addiction is typically relatively benign, marijuana can and does destroy lives. Marijuana has some promising medical applications in the area of symptom treatment, it's medical potential is often exaggerated and medical marijuana is mostly quackery.

I'm all for legalization, but the over-hyped memezation of cannabis is a bit of a pet peeve for me. Research rather consistently classifies cannabis as a medium-risk drug.

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