Religious books

[Strang]

Kentucky is in the "Bible Belt" of America, as many of the population practices Christianity. So why not add a Religious trait and books. If a person had the religious trait and reads a religious book, they get less depressed and gain a small boost in the happy trait. But as a negitive, your character will refrain from drinking, eating certian types of meat, ect. And if you do not read a religious book, he will slowly get depressed and no longer religious. But if you have a non religious character and he reads a religious book, he can eventually become religious

[Johnny]

It would be cool to see this, but as we all know, religion is such a fragile subject, but maybe we could slip a book into the shelves..

[Jack Bower]

Or more depressed because your god sent zombies to the world to devour the human race.

[PhantomWarlock]

Well as the trait/occupation goes, I would think doing "sins" such as killing, stealing, etc. would have a very negative effect. This could cause a severe decline in social proficiency, and maybe even make your character not want to get out of bed at times.

Maybe another trait, misotheist, could also come along with this. A person like this would have random fits of rage at seeing bad sh*t around the world, as he or she would probably blame it all on a god/gods. This could cause recklessness and even cause someone to "freak out", at the wrong moments. Just my thoughts, ladies and gentlemen.

 

(But on the topic of this being too touchy of a subject, I'm sure if we can have a church, we could have a bible as well. )

[syfy]

it may be best to just not bring religion into the game at all

no Bible, Tora, or other religious text.

 

so many people in todays society who are just begging to find something to be upset about, if they forget one religions Holy Writings then the Devs must be biased against that religion.

 

lets just avoid that and not bring religion into the game. or the forum.

[Jsnazz]

^ well said.

 

We don't want this to happen in our state ( in game wise) where our character refuse medical treatment after reading the Bible xD

 

http://www.alternet.org/christian-kids-dying-because-their-parents-refuse-medical-treatment-and-its-perfectly-legal

[Marinus]

It's essentially a good idea when handled carefully, but it would probably cause a lot of controversy regardless and it isn't strictly necessary. I strongly suspect that the Devs aren't even going to poke at this one with a 10 foot pole. 

[StrictlyShane]

Not necessary in my opinion. Has the potential to cause a lot more controversy than it's worth.

[Strang]

Seeing as there is a Curch, and no one has (to my knowledge) complained that other religious buildings are in, why is adding religious books in an area that us known for having a religious population.

[Jsnazz]

Perhaps the dev didn't want to create a curse by adding a trait that will cause long term depression if you forget to read your religious book or worst you ran out of religious books to read.

 

Its like G_d purposely planted the seed of sin to make the innocent feeling guilty, until they believe in his sun to be save.

 

Its best to leave it alone mate.

[syfy]

Seeing as there is a Curch, and no one has (to my knowledge) complained that other religious buildings are in, why is adding religious books in an area that us known for having a religious population.

seeing as they seem to be doing their best to put the buildings on the map, in the same locations as they are in the Real Life towns it would be dumb NOT to have them there. but there is in fact a difference between being "faithful" to the layout of a Real Life town, and stirring the pot by trying to bring in Religion to the game. in addition to the possibility of missing, and possibly upsetting a religion by not including their religious text, you must also find a way to appease and keep the Atheists and other Anti Religion groups from causing a shit storm over TIS adding religion to a game about a Zombie Apocalypse.

 

the potential for it to go VERY bad is there, and is simply better to not willingly bring it into the game, or the forum, in the first place.

[Ewok]

While I actually think it's a really nice idea as a flavour piece, I don't think that adding an item for the sake of benefitting only characters with one specific trait is particularly worthwhile.

 

I don;t see it as a huge act of controversy. It's not like there is an implication of "religion good" or "religion bad" in the suggestion as it stands.

[Rok]

If religion is going to be used as an excuse to pass on responsibility to someone's deity, like one poster suggested above and got supported, then yeah, it's best to just leave it alone and out of our PZ fictional world. I'm tired of hearing emotional atheists being the quickest people to complain about what "God did" and thus not deserving worship or belief or however they explain that argument of theirs, rather than stick to the principle they supposedly have, which is no existence of a deity in the world, and thus the only entity responsible for the catastrophes, diseases, depressions, and crises in the world being us, the human race itself.

 

We pollute the environment; mess up with the very genetics of nature; fall to greed, mass production, and growth acceleration; produce toxic and carcinogenic chemicals to apply on and ingest into our very bodies; lead sedantary lives that our motion-hungry bodies were never made for; spend tens of times more on military infrastructure and active wars, rather than on education, health care, or an infrastructure that is resistent to natural catastrophes like volcanoes and earthquakes. And after aaall this, after all these crimes against our fellow human beings and even against ourselves, some of us find it soo easy to blame a deity—whether they believe in one or not—for the misery that befalls us and our whole race.

It's exactly as if a father gave his newly matured son a hammer and told him that he now has permission to use it creatively the way he wants, and that he trusts that the lessons he taught his son will help him choose wisely. Then, the son takes the hammer and his free will and goes to bash other human beings' skulls, murdering them; and the son returns to his father and blames his father for the crimes and misery caused! Why? Because his father had the power to stop him. As if exercising that power wouldn't render the "free will" gifted to the son meaningless. That's the human race's story with their deity, whether they believe in one, pretend to, or pretend not to.

Now, if adding religion will remind us of this very real depression, then I vote for keeping it out. I don't want reminders of this.

However, if adding religion will be simple, with a healthy dose of superficiality and anonymity, along the lines of a trait of "Religious" and a book titled "Holy Book", and there is only the benefit of avoiding depression, perhaps gaining a temporary boost of bravery that can be renewed with more reading in the book, and with no negative results from engaging in all that, and no mention of blame on a deity or cursing any deity, then it that spirit of civility, politeness, simplicity, and anonymity, that would be a nice option for those who want to engage in it.

[JM_Forest_64]

If religion is going to be used as an excuse to pass on responsibility to someone's deity, like one poster suggested above and got supported, then yeah, it's best to just leave it alone and out of our PZ fictional world. I'm tired of hearing emotional atheists being the quickest people to complain about what "God did" and thus not deserving worship or belief or however they explain that argument of theirs, rather than stick to the principle they supposedly have, which is no existence of a deity in the world, and thus the only entity responsible for the catastrophes, diseases, depressions, and crises in the world being us, the human race itself.

 

We pollute the environment; mess up with the very genetics of nature; fall to greed, mass production, and growth acceleration; produce toxic and carcinogenic chemicals to apply on and ingest into our very bodies; lead sedantary lives that our motion-hungry bodies were never made for; spend tens of times more on military infrastructure and active wars, rather than on education, health care, or an infrastructure that is resistent to natural catastrophes like volcanoes and earthquakes. And after aaall this, after all these crimes against our fellow human beings and even against ourselves, some of us find it soo easy to blame a deity—whether they believe in one or not—for the misery that befalls us and our whole race.

It's exactly as if a father gave his newly matured son a hammer and told him that he now has permission to use it creatively the way he wants, and that he trusts that the lessons he taught his son will help him choose wisely. Then, the son takes the hammer and his free will and goes to bash other human beings' skulls, murdering them; and the son returns to his father and blames his father for the crimes and misery caused! Why? Because his father had the power to stop him. As if exercising that power wouldn't render the "free will" gifted to the son meaningless. That's the human race's story with their deity, whether they believe in one, pretend to, or pretend not to.

Now, if adding religion will remind us of this very real depression, then I vote for keeping it out. I don't want reminders of this.

However, if adding religion will be simple, with a healthy dose of superficiality and anonymity, along the lines of a trait of "Religious" and a book titled "Holy Book", and there is only the benefit of avoiding depression, perhaps gaining a temporary boost of bravery that can be renewed with more reading in the book, and with no negative results from engaging in all that, and no mention of blame on a deity or cursing any deity, then it that spirit of civility, politeness, simplicity, and anonymity, that would be a nice option for those who want to engage in it.

 

You've made some very good points here, and I can only assume that this post must have taken you some time to write as this, for you, is certainly more than just a fleeting thought you're writing about.  However, your argument for incorporating a generic religion into the game has one fatal flaw.  While it works for incorporating more of the real world into the virtual PZ world, the aim of the game is to not make anything in the game vital or automatically positive for your character, except food and water.  For example:

 

- Axes are great, but they're rare.  If you only have a few, do you use them the hack zombies or to help build a long term base.

- Skill books are great, but you have to find the right ones.  That means getting to know the people in your neighborhood, who all happen to be flesh eating zombies.  Even once you find them, you have to take time away from gathering/building/fighting to read the the things.

- Fishing is great.  It's just crazy boring.

 

So, by incorporating religion, in the particular the generic religious options you described at the end of your post, you've only given it bonuses that it would add to the characters.  Naturally, this will make everyone playing the game adopt religious characteristics. Because of this, it makes religion antithetical to the game's theme (weighing choices), and it won't be incorporated.  Now, with all this being said, I really liked you're post, so if you could think of some detriments religion would bring to the game, I think that would make your idea sound better to the developers.  Oh, and if you created a mod that had all this religious stuff and the community at large raved about it, then you might even see it in the final game.

[Sooner535]

If I might chime in?

I think adding this would actually add a nice big flavor to the game, but the book should be called either "holy text" or "religious book" or something very generic in my opinion

Then as a religious character I think the positive be obvious they get bonuses from being religious and using the book, but I think a general negative of most religions would be killing (there are a few that don't frown on it in some cases but most and by most like 95% I would say do) and that would be the negative so you'd basically be limiting yourself in the hunt to kill survivors. Zombies I think should be fine as their dead any who, also this would add a nice addition for NPCs as a character marked reverend or what have you might be someone your more likely to trust and if they end out bad it may just surprise you would be very interesting indeed I think.

[Breaker]

We can safely assume the game already has religious texts, the item called "Book". These generic books are either fiction or non-fiction that does not apply to you survival. Why should we bother distinguishing between a home decorating guide or the bible? Both might make you feel better or less bored but have no affect on your current situation.

And as far as 'religious' as a trait, very unlikely. Without sounding too biased, anyone devotedly religious would not survive long as their blind morality would cause them to make fatal mistakes in the early stages of an outbreak. Religion has a bad track record with infectious pathogens.

[Snorrsenkel]

Maybe a religious character will have more luck during the game. Because he will have a support from the higher power above. XD

[956Texas]

Well just make it a mod.. Who ever wants this he can DL it,I dont think it should be added into the main game though..

[CaptKaspar]

Why would a G*d allow the Z-Apoc to happen? He/she/it wants most, if not all, of us dead... I suppose that's not the point of this thread though.

 

I personally do not see the addition of religion (even if its generic) adding any significant value to the game. It won't improve game play and I do not think it will make the game any more than slightly more immersive at best.

 

If you want to be religious, just take a book to a church, an open field, your living room, wherever and read it. You can RP you're reading the religious text of your choosing there. As someone previously stated, we have generic books in the game. One of those 'books' could be a religious text. You can RP by not eating certain foods and you can run around canting religious ideas all you want, but religion itself doesn't need to be in the base of the game.

 

If someone wants to make a mod where you have religious traits, moodles, etc; then by all means go for it.

 

But, I think the safe thing for TIS to do is to not touch this subject with a 10ft pole. They stand to gain very little and potentially lose a lot. It is just too sensitive of a subject to deal with. The care that would be needed to do it right and thoughtfully is IMO too time consuming/demanding on their end. Easier/safer just to stay away. Risk vs Reward.

 

EDIT: I just want to add that I am a spiritual person. I am not trying to be negative on religion. I just think its a very dangerous idea to dabble in without much to gain by doing so.

[JM_Forest_64]

Now, I'm just going to play devil's advocate here (pun intended), but PZ is a game world that builds itself around the central question of "what would life really be like during the zombie apocalypse."  Of course, apocalypse being a word from the book of Revelation notwithstanding, the aphorism "there are no atheists in foxholes," I believe could apply to any given survivor's psyche in the game.  As long as a character is having a real go at surviving during the end of times, then they are asking themselves some basic questions in order to make sense of the world.  During the long, dark nights, a person would be trying to understand what the zombie is, what makes it tick, why the zombie does what it does, if only to try and better understand the enemy and so better one's chances of survival.  Religion would be found here (Did God do this?)

 

Also, if you can put yourself in the survivors shoes for a minute:

 

If you found yourself escaping from a sprinting horde of flesh eaters, running for dear life down the street, turning the corner of a building in a futile attempt to lose your would-be killers, and finding an empty, open door, you'd jump in and shut the thing.  What would you be thinking?  "Thank you random-chance-of-the-universe for placing this egress from danger along my escape route."  No, you'd think "Thank God, thank you God."  And you would you say to yourself, "I understand there is a high probability that at least one member of the horde witnessed this door closing and that my pursuit is still ongoing."  No, you'd be pleading to a higher power, "Please don't have let them see me, please don't let them in here, please don't, please don't."  Thanking God, pleading to a higher power; that's religion.

[Jsnazz]

Playing devil advocate as well

 

 

[Marinus]

the aphorism "there are no atheists in foxholes," 

 

Actually this is not an aphorism but a flawed generalization and an insult.

 

 

 

What would you be thinking?  "Thank you random-chance-of-the-universe for placing this egress from danger along my escape route."  No, you'd think "Thank God, thank you God."  And you would you say to yourself, "I understand there is a high probability that at least one member of the horde witnessed this door closing and that my pursuit is still ongoing."  No, you'd be pleading to a higher power, "Please don't have let them see me, please don't let them in here, please don't, please don't."  Thanking God, pleading to a higher power; that's religion.

 

If results from experience with mortal danger the past say anything about being chased by a fictional cannibalistic horde in a hypothetical future, I will not be wasting time on praying to and/or thanking deities nor will I see mundane things like unlocked doors as a miracle.

[Baron_Woelf]

I do not mean to defame anybody but I guess this topic should be closed (or moved to offtopic). As the game already spread all over the world, religious anyhow inflicted depression should not be considered here. For my example I would get depressed without musical instruments, but I would not suggest to implement this to pz

[JM_Forest_64]

 

the aphorism "there are no atheists in foxholes," 

 

Actually this is not an aphorism but a flawed generalization and an insult.

 

 

 

What would you be thinking?  "Thank you random-chance-of-the-universe for placing this egress from danger along my escape route."  No, you'd think "Thank God, thank you God."  And you would you say to yourself, "I understand there is a high probability that at least one member of the horde witnessed this door closing and that my pursuit is still ongoing."  No, you'd be pleading to a higher power, "Please don't have let them see me, please don't let them in here, please don't, please don't."  Thanking God, pleading to a higher power; that's religion.

 

If results from experience with mortal danger the past say anything about being chased by a fictional cannibalistic horde in a hypothetical future, I will not be wasting time on praying to and/or thanking deities nor will I see mundane things like unlocked doors as a miracle.

 

Too true, you and many others may not give any consideration to higher power's effect on a given situation. Also, "There are no atheists in foxholes" may not be a aphorism.  It's certainly an adage with a history of use and some degree of acceptance with the general population which helps to propagate it's continued usage.  Which is why I propose this:

 

Religious Book: incorporate it into the game.  Can be used like a regular book by anyone.

Religious: make it a selectable trait during character creation.  (+2 green)  So you have to choose a negative trait to obtain the religious trait.  Religious trait lets people use a religious book like a regular book, with the difference being the book is not consumed after usage.  This reflects the religious persons continuous use of the book, and means the character does not have to rely on having a small mountain of newspapers, magazines, and books to help keep boredom/sadness under control.

Fanatic: make it a selectable trait during character creation. (-2 red)  I include this because the character creation usually lets you choose one green trait and then removes it's corresponding red trait.  Selecting it means you automatically have a substantial negative relationship with any other survivor that does not have the fanatic/religious trait.  This would invite the creation of cults once NPC's are introduced, which is probably something that would happen during the end times.  A fanatic can use a religious book the same way a character with the religious trait does.