Mondoid Question

[Talksintext]

I am a bit confused about the following passage:

 

Say your Carpenter had green fingers in his pre-apocalypse life, for example. You’d pick the ‘Gardener’ trait which would then give you a single point in farming – and while that wouldn’t seem like a huge deal in itself it WOULD mean that they’re now learning farming at a 1x speed rate instead of the bargain basement ‘level zero’ 0.333x speed. This then makes Farming a viable skill to train up during a run.

 

[if you require a frame of reference then think of how Morrowind's minor / major skills worked.]

 

Okay, so I get to start at level 1 instead of level 0 for farming, that's simple enough.

 

What does the second part mean in blue, though? How does that work? Level 1 starts at like a 0.2x speed or something, doesn't it? Why is it now 1x? Do you automatically get the full book multiplier for every level with the new skill traits?

 

I have no clue about Morrowind. Maybe someone who knows about that can chime in?

 

Anyway, otherwise I like the new direction.

[Carzen]

I think it's like that (correct me if I'm wrong):

Before the apocalypse, your guy was a carpenter in his "main job", and have the gardener trait - he probably did it like a hobbie - that would explain why he level up farming faster than any other unrelated skill, like aim and first aid.

It makes sense, because it's harder to learn a skill you don't have any practice than one you had as a hobbie (gardening in that case).
And I have no idea how books will work after the update :/

Sorry if I said wrong things, but that's what I could get lol

(also sorry for my bad english please hehe)

[Kajin]

With the new system coming out, you start with a number of skill points that correlate to your hobbies and chosen profession. Any skills that don't get a boost from jobs or traits starts out at level 0, and gets a 0.33 penalty where you only get a third of the experience points you'd normally acquire, making leveling those skills up a great deal harder.

 

On the other side, any skill that starts the game with points in it thanks to your profession gets an experience boost or, if the skill starts at level one, remains the same as it was before the update. It gets the 1x multiplier instead of the 0.33 multipler, making it level up at the same speed it did before these changes went into effect.

[Sadeyx]

Essentially, every skill has been nerfed and now levels at 1/3 the speed.

 

Unless of course you chose a proffesion or trait which raises it back to the normal leveling speed.. or even further!

[migulao]

Essentially, every skill has been nerfed and now levels at 1/3 the speed.

 

Unless of course you chose a proffesion or trait which raises it back to the normal leveling speed.. or even further!

Because having to constantly build wood floors to grind myself to level 3 of carpentry wasn't hard enough, now not only I have to do it 3 times as much, plus having to get to another level to unlock stairs.

[Ohbal]

If I have learn something so far, is that I do not need to have the ultimate player-built-safehouse to do well in this game. Carpentry has been considered a must have in this game, but I think its so just because people like to build things. The only really valuable aspect of the Carpentry now are the rain barrels.  

 

I really hope TIS give us different ways to store rain water if the carpentry is getting this change, as otherwise everyone will pick up carpenter... or go live close to a well, which usually means the farmer's life as you are so far of everything...

[Jack Bower]

I personally am looking forward to how many instant athetic traits I can combo with easy carpentry to stair into peoples bases. I don't know what the burgler profession option brings but it probably sucks for commiting actual burglary in the game. (Bunch of stealth traits which is easiest traits to level rather then taking like sprinting or organized which would pay off way more.

[Connll]

Will Profession books still give you XP Boosts?

 

Because, in my experience, without them it is almost impossible to get any skill above 3 (a mind-numbingly long grind is required. Not fun). Just take a look at the Agility and Combat skillls., compared to carpentry, Cooking and farming, and the others that have books, if you doubt me.

 

In short, I like the new character creation system, but i hate the nerf to xp in professions. As it is envisioned right now, it will FORCE everyone to be a carpenter in order to build rain barrels before you die of thirst. Not cool.

[Jack Bower]

The Carpentry trait does seem incredibly overpowered.

[EnigmaGrey]

Because, in my experience, without them it is almost impossible to get any skill above 3 (a mind-numbingly long grind is required. Not fun).

Yes, you won't want to even bother attempting this.

 

Going to be nice not to have 4-5s in everything by the end of an in-game week.

[Ohbal]

Going to be nice not to have 4-5s in everything by the end of an in-game week.

 

4-5 in everything? In one in game week?

 

Either you are utterly exagerating (which I think is the case but I'm terrible catching this without seeing somebody's face), or I'm doing something utterly wrong. I have a 2.5 xp boost in my last sandbox and 3 months later my toon only has maxed out farming, and carpetry. Most of the other stuff is 1-2 (and zero) except cooking which is on 4 (as can be seen, only book related skills maxed out ore close to be). My "survival" toon, after 9 months, is in similar conditions (no 2.5 boost). 

 

Which is not a bad thing, let me clarify that I'm not against this. I like diversity and all chars being equal doesn't add any spice.

 

On the other hand, the already mentioned problem with the rain barrels will be a bad thing for SP, although I'm 99% positive TIS will give us an alternative way to collect rain water. 

[EnigmaGrey]

Utterly exaggerating . . . though now I want to see how far I can go if I just grind for a week solid, in game.

[Sadeyx]

 

Essentially, every skill has been nerfed and now levels at 1/3 the speed.

 

Unless of course you chose a proffesion or trait which raises it back to the normal leveling speed.. or even further!

Because having to constantly build wood floors to grind myself to level 3 of carpentry wasn't hard enough, now not only I have to do it 3 times as much, plus having to get to another level to unlock stairs.

 

well If you plan to do any carpentry at all you'd put it up to one point, which not only gives you the first level for free but means leveling is normal speed + skill books.

 

Even in single player I personally would likley go with cooking 1 and carpentry 1, blunt 1..  I dont mind leveling other things, personally I think they level too fast as it stands anyway.

[Ohbal]

Utterly exaggerating . . . though now I want to see how far I can go if I just grind for a week solid, in game.

 

I wouldn't want to be responsible for that mate, life is hard and then you die. No need to prove anything  .  

[CaptKaspar]

Don't forget they also said all the carpentry recipes will require an additional level of carpentry from what they are now! No more rain barrels at level 2, we'll need to be level 3 to get them! Ugh... Can't I just put my buckets outside?

 

Everyone is going to be a carpenter for that reason.

So if level 0 is going to be a 0.33xp multiplier and level 1 is going to be a 1.0xp multiplier, will level 2 be a 3.0xp multiplier and so on?

[EnigmaGrey]

 Ugh... Can't I just put my buckets outside?

Has been planned for a very long time.

I imagine if/when they're in, it'll just be a much less effective rainbarrel.

[Svarog]

Don't forget they also said all the carpentry recipes will require an additional level of carpentry from what they are now! No more rain barrels at level 2, we'll need to be level 3 to get them! Ugh... Can't I just put my buckets outside?

 

Everyone is going to be a carpenter for that reason.

So if level 0 is going to be a 0.33xp multiplier and level 1 is going to be a 1.0xp multiplier, will level 2 be a 3.0xp multiplier and so on?

Most likely it will stay 0.333xp forever unless you chose a trait that allows your character to have the standard XP multiplier. I like it personally the game is going to be much more challenging.

[Suomiboi]

 

Essentially, every skill has been nerfed and now levels at 1/3 the speed.

 

Unless of course you chose a proffesion or trait which raises it back to the normal leveling speed.. or even further!

Because having to constantly build wood floors to grind myself to level 3 of carpentry wasn't hard enough, now not only I have to do it 3 times as much, plus having to get to another level to unlock stairs.

 

No you don't, you need to choose the carpenter profession or maybe a construction worker has a bonus too. And what about the hobbies and traits? And also you can find a friend to do your carpentry for you if you're not good enough (MP, NPCs). Life is full of choices, if you choose to suck at carpentry then you won't be building fortresses alone. Quite fair imo.

 

EDIT: Plus, you can edit the values in sandbox...

[Connll]

No it isn´t, because you MUST HAVE carpentry in order to make Rain barrels.

 

I urge Indiestone to re-think the decision to apply penalties to XP gain. If you can´t find the correct profession books, getting any skill to lvl 3 takes long enough already; to lvl 4 and 5 is damn near impossible.

 

making Water barrels require carpentry 4 and 5 (small and big, respectively) will FORCE anyone to be a carpenter.

 

And even for those who ARE carpenters, missing out the correct profession books will mean they will die of thirst long before the grinded the skill enough to make the rain barrels.

[Invader Jim]

So if I have 0 carpentry skill will it be possible to find an NPC friend who is a carpenter and get them to build a wall or a fancy rain barrel  for me? Clearly keeping people as more specialists instead of good in nearly everything will add a great dynamic to MP but how will it impact SP?

[EnigmaGrey]

No it isn´t, because you MUST HAVE carpentry in order to make Rain barrels.

There's wells on the map, as well as a massive amount of water (far, far too much) available from taps after the water goes out.

Did I miss something about skill books no longer being effective?

[syfy]

nah, just people jumping to conclusions before we fully understand how the new system will work.

 

quite common for it to happen.

[Ontogenesis]

The XP gains encourages specialism, which I completely approve of.

 

Those unhappy with the difficulty of building rain barrels if they don't choose the carpenter profession or trait - remember NPCs will be added to the game in the future. Ideally your group will have a mixed skill set so the overall group is rounded. What you can't do another member can (e.g. building rain barrels, doctoring).

[Jatta Pake]

I thought of a few things about water.

 

Water Changes:

• Add potable water to the game. Similar to food, water can be "Fresh", "Stagnant", and "Foul".
• Wells and houses provide "Fresh" water (until the faucets run out).
• Found water bottles provide "Fresh" water.
• Barrels, buckets, other makeshift collection devices could collect rain water. But they wouldn't collect much!
• Rain water would start "Fresh" but become "Stagnant" after a day or two.
• "Stagnant" water will not kill you but has a small chance of making you sick.
• "Stagnant" water can be made "Fresh" by:
  • Adding Bleach
  • Adding Iodine
  • Adding Water Purification Tablets
  • Boiling
  • Putting water in Makeshift Filtration System (limited uses before breaking) or Advanced Filtration System (no breakage)
• "Stagnant" water slowly turns to "Foul" water over an extended time.
• "Foul" water is diseased and unsafe for drinking. Drinking "Foul" water will make you extremely sick. Drinking too much will kill you.
• "Foul" and "Stagnant" water can be used to water crops.
• "Foul" water can be made "Fresh" by:
  • Putting water in Advanced Filtration System (does not break down)
• Plumbing Skill Level 2 allows the construction of Makeshift Filtration System
• Plumbing Skill Level 3 allows the construction of Advanced Filtration System

I'd allow the collection of water from rivers, streams, and ponds but the water should be "Stagnant".

 

Killing You In The Late Game

• After about eight months into the game, all well water and faucet water collected would be "Stagnant".
• After about eight months into the game, all water collected from rivers, streams, and ponds would be "Foul". (You've got zombies floating around in there).

Plumbing Skill Crafting

• Makeshift Water Filtration System
• Advanced Water Filtration System
• Crop Irrigation System
• Large Rain Barrels
• Rain Collection System (needed to maximize rain collection in Large Rain Barrels)
• Couplers (Needed to link Rain Barrels to other Rain Barrels, a Rain Collection System and an Advanced Filtration System)
• Dig Well (Level 5 Plumbing)
• Well Pump (Level 5 Plumbing)
• Latrine (reduces the effects of Miasma)

Plumbing would definitely be a valued skill. Hobbyists could grind up the skill by purifying water until they can make a Makeshift Filtration System. But for a sustainable settlement, a group of survivors would want a professional plumber on the team to build the Advanced Filtration System.

 

PvP:

• Wells could be poisoned (ancient military tactic) that turns all the water collected from them to "Foul".
• A sustainable settlement that can make "Fresh" water would be a powerful group in the late game. It would also be a big target for raiders and attackers.

 

 

Sources: 

http://www.ehow.com/how_7516745_purify-non-potable-water.html

http://www.wikihow.com/Build-a-Rainwater-Collection-System

[Ohbal]

In my humble opinion there are flaws in the concept behind the new system. Let's see if I can explain my point. 

 

You still give players the chance to get the same skills, but with a XP penalty. That decission, will ultimately lead to grinding (you may consider grinders are choosing a poor game style but its not going anywhere... is on the DNA of a lot of people including myself) and grinding leads to boredom... which is what you want to avoid at all costs while playing a game.Leveling up in this game (except for the combat skills) is not really an active thing, is just clicking and clicking. So in the end, you are just making the road longer and more boring, not harder or challenging. Just.... longer. 

 

I think it would be a better idea to divide the skills between "general" and "special". The generals would be for everybody. The specials would be limited to the characters who pick certain professions or hobbies or whatever. 

 

Honestly, I'm mostly concerned about single player (this system may work better in MP) and  I'm not counting on NPCs yet as I have no seen them, and

a) I don't know how they will work

b) I (can only) assume that they will be an option for the player, not a must have. 

 

A system (your character abilities) depending on a system (the NPCs) depending on a system (the randomness of each game) is most likely to end up unbalanced. 

 

Just my two cents!