Why are campfires so incredibly hard to make again?

[LeoIvanov]

In real life all you need is a source of fire (matches/lighter) and some dry wooden sticks/newspaper sheets/etc to make a fire.

 

To create a campfire I think it can take a little more than just some newspapers but you catch my drift, why is it so incredibly hard to create one in PZ?

 

You literally have to search for a screwdriver (Which in current forum test versions are INCREDIBLY hard to find) to make a drill in a plank so then you can combine it with...- WHAT?

Please, let us be able to create simpliest campfires by combining matches/lighter and some planks, or maybe books and newspaper/magazines could also do? Its just really frustrating through what I have to go through to make it

 

quote from wiki

To light a fire, a player can pour some flammable liquid from a gas can onto the campfire and light a fire with with a lighter. Alternatively, the player can use flint and steel to light the fire. Upon lighting the fire, a weak fire will appear. If a player adds a log, the fire's will grow stronger. Going near an active fire pit will generate some light and will warm up the character. Furthermore, it can be used to cook certain foods.

 

Why do we need to pour gas on logs in the first place? xD Why overcomplicate things? Just let us use the lighter/matches to light up the fire and let the gas/planks/books/whatever be a way to keep it running. I know that the drilling plank thing is good for when you can't find matches/lighters, but don't make it neccessary :/

 

Or just make it so if you -simply- light it up with the lighter it will only be lit up to level 1. That way we'll have to throw more planks or pour gas for it to go all the way up to 3. 

[RegularX]

Yeah, I kinda agree - and it's one of the reasons I added Simpler Kindling into the SICmod (although I don't recall if you need ParkRanger to use it or not).

 

Here's the thing about fires - starting them is actually pretty easy if you have anything small that is remotely flammable and a source of flame.  Just ask my trash can from high school after my brother dropped a match into it.

 

Unless you are completely without matches or a lighter, starting a fire is easy.  Maintaining a fire is actually pretty hard and takes practice.  It's one thing to set your trash can alight, it is another to make a fire which can be kept alive by just adding in a few logs that will actually cook food.  You can't just shove a magazine under a bunch of logs and then light it.  The magazine will burn in a couple of minutes and the logs will get singed, and you'll still be cold and hungry.

 

Also, soaking your logs in petrol/gasoline is actually pretty bad camping.  It's dangerous, and there is a good chance the petrol will burn off faster rather than keeping your fire going longer. Lighter fluid is more realistic, but again - really only belongs on the kindling, not the logs.

 

So if I put on a realism hat - I'd say a baseline campfire could be made out of a) matches or lighter, b) something made of paper, c) kindling easily gathered off a tree (no sawing or drilling) and some logs.

 

Taking off my realism hat, though, I think the current system is balanced pretty well - but I would definitely make the kindling gathering much easier.  With all these trees around, there's not much need to drill holes into lumber to start a fire.

[GSC]

True, kindling is a bit hard to make, because you need a screwdriver. On the other hand, you can reuse it many times to light your fire, which is good. A flint and steel would be similarly handy and I think it's already in the game in some form, just not used at the moment.

 

Gas is super rare and heavy, so it's almost a non-option.

[maxthebeast]

Lighting a fire with only a plank and matches, I'm fairly certain, is impossible. However I agree that newspapers and magazines should be used as fuel.

[nuget102]

Lighting a fire with only a plank and matches, I'm fairly certain, is impossible. However I agree that newspapers and magazines should be used as fuel.

It would take a lot of matches and even then it's iffy.... I've always used a lighter/matches to light news paper which in turn catches kindling on fire then I put small branches on after the kindling is going, and then finally a log. We use a wood stove to stay warm in the winter, and even though it sounds simple it really isn't to get a fire going. If the wood is still green it has a lot of moisture in it, so it ends up being really hard to get going (but it also burns hotter I think) We only ever use dead wood because it's easier to get dead wood on fire. But it can still be a huge pain, you can't have too much air or the fire will go out. Same with if you have too little air... (i'm talking about when the fire is first starting, not when it's going. It's usually pretty easy to keep going)

[Rathlord]

I can confirm that you can't start a fire with nothing but matches (or even a lighter) and a board. You'll just be wasting your time.

 

I agree with RegularX. If you have a bit of paper/leaves/whatever getting the red stuff to pop up isn't hard, it's the actually getting the logs to burn that takes skill and correctly proportioned kindling. Been hunting and camping (and of course, starting fires) since I was about 8, so it's second nature to me now but I've watched some of my city friends trying to light a fire with a bottle of lighter fluid and a lighter and just ended up taking them away out of mercy after half an hour.

[dida55]

It takes practice but it is fairly easy to light a fire with materials found in a house / forest. Bandages / Cloth / Newspaper / Tinder / Kindling + a firestone + a knife (or another firestone) and then the planks. It surely doesn't need gas can, it would just explode.

[RegularX]

Well lighting a plank with a lighter is possible.  It would take some sheets, soaked in gasoline and then tied to one end of the plank.

 

Course, you don't get a campfire from that - you get a torch.

[Zourin]

Kindling is made from small, easily flammable items. The need for a screwdriver (which is absurdly uncommon) isn't going to be terribly intuitive for players. Hammers and Screwdrivers are surprisingly uncommon, considering they are basic household tools commonly found in just about every home in the US. Saws, Axes, and Sledges are about right.

 

Good recipes for kindling would be any 3 readable materials (magazines, newspapers, journal pages) and a torn-cloth bandage would make a pretty simple fire starter. Sawing down a plank into sticks would be a good renewable alternative (still require the cloth).

 

Using gasoline is a bit absurd, particularly in the context of the game where gasoline is probably THE rarest item you can find (next to the elusive screwdriver) and is dual-purposed for molotovs.

[rotacioskapa]

what about gathering lop and top, cutting a tree and using a lighter.
A much easier way to make fire.
And anyway if you want to be so realistic, you cant light a log that has just been cut from a tree, its moist.

[GSC]

Good recipes for kindling would be any 3 readable materials (magazines, newspapers, journal pages) and a torn-cloth bandage would make a pretty simple fire starter. Sawing down a plank into sticks would be a good renewable alternative (still require the cloth).

That is pretty much the campfire kit now: pieces of wood + paper/cloth. They could rename this to kindling, and the kindling to firestarter or something, but that's just semantics. The components you need to make a fire are sensible, with the exception of the - currently rare - screwdriver and gas. It just needs a bit of tweaking: more common screwdrivers and/or other options to drill wood + more common gas and/or using a small amount of gas to light a fire instead of a full can.

 

Using gasoline seems like a realistic option for me. If you were trying to start a fire outdoors, during or after rain, you would have a very hard time with kindling and wood found lying around. Even pro survivalists with flint and steel would fail in bad conditions, an average Joe would be hopeless. Using gas - even a small amount - means sacrificing a scarce resource (that could also power a vehicle or a generator later on) in order to get warm / cook your food. If you were out in the wild in harsh weather, cold, hungry and miserable after failing to start a fire with a traditional fire kit for hours, you would resort to using gas too (given the option).

[Zourin]

Using gasoline is one of the dumbest ideas around to get a fire going. If you wouldn't do it in your BBQ, why on earth would you do it on a campfire? (You've seen the videos of people dumping entire cans of lighter fluid into a BBQ and lighting it, right?)

 

The whole 'make or break' condition in getting a fire started is producing enough heat to begin combustion. For that, all you need is a dry match or a lighter. You do not need to dump an entire gallon of gasoline on a pile of wood when all you need is a microscopic fraction of that amount in a zippo to 'make fire', and that lighter is reusable for weeks and available by the hundreds at any gas station.

 

civilization is a wonderful thing. All you need to do is bust into a gas station and you've got fire for a lifetime. Whether or not you can keep your fire materials dry is another matter entirely, but you should have no problem getting things started.

 

Food stores and some gas stations are also likely to have a ton of charcoal as well, which also often have ignition-assist chemicals soaked into them. Don't get me started about propane or the absurdity of a carless town in the US (much less a carless town with gas stations and parking lots)

[GSC]

Using gasoline is one of the dumbest ideas around to get a fire going. If you wouldn't do it in your BBQ, why on earth would you do it on a campfire?

Because you have no other option and you want / need to build a fire? Desperate times and such. Besides, almost anyone could light a fire with the help of some gasoline (and build it up enough to burn scavenged wood), even in wet conditions.

 

all you need is a microscopic fraction of that amount in a zippo to 'make fire', and that lighter is reusable for weeks and available by the hundreds at any gas station

Most cheap lighters can't be refilled and even the ones that can are not designed to let you pour the liquid out. Sure, you can break the lighter, but then it's a single-use firestarter. This could be more wasteful than using a reasonable amount of gas from a can. Proper lighters are more rare and have an uncertain amount of fluid in them (probably 0 when new).

 

All you need to do is bust into a gas station and you've got fire for a lifetime. Whether or not you can keep your fire materials dry is another matter entirely, but you should have no problem getting things started.

 

Food stores and some gas stations are also likely to have a ton of charcoal as well, which also often have ignition-assist chemicals soaked into them.

Item spawns in the game are designed to be challenging. Matches and lighters are kind of rare and don't spawn by the dozens, which is as intended. Gas is extremely rare right now, but that is likely to change (especially when vehicles are put in).

[Shivster]

A really easy and abundant item to use is a tampon. soak it in ANY flammable liquid take one match and bam fire!  they are packed in a water proof package come in boxes of 2 to 30(Are really good firstaid items as well).

 

Rubbing alcohol, Gas, Hand sanitizers, and many many other things can be used.

 

unbelievable? Watch this..

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zzl-I3v7NPU

[Rathlord]

...That man has a very, very strange addiction to lighting fires with unmentionable bits of female hygiene.

[Shivster]

I know but i couldn't resist. When do you get a chance to throw up a gem like that in a forum. Made me laugh so i had to share it. He seemed to be really good at unpacking it too. almost to good. But it is a really good idea i would have never thought of it

 

Jim: Hey Billybob i need to start a fire.

Billybob: One second Jim let me get a maxi pad.

Jim: ........................

[TinnedEpic]

... Well I've seen more accidents happen with petrol started fires than I have with paper lit ones. I'd be all for this.

 

I have no prior survival nature skills I do believe I class as an average guy. However lighting a fire on nothing but paper, matches/lighters isn't a huge challenge. Hell I find good kindling on my front lawn, fallen twigs and small branches perfect size to catch alight quickly from newspaper fire. Build with medium wood when the kindling is burning, then moving on to solid logs. The whole process can take anywhere from 20-40 minutes depending on a few factors.

 

I'd be all for this idea, petrol lit fire seem hazardous especially in inexperienced hands.

[Blkrobedmage]

I agree that gas is not really the best way to start campfires. With all the wood, lighters and matches I find, even Paris Hilton could start a fire at some point. I mean your character can make planks easily (maybe not very pretty planks) with a saw and log off the bat, So lets say he has the basic understanding of how to start a decent campfire without just dumping gas on a pile of sticks.

 

If anything, you could tie it into cooking and give it a timer on how long it takes depending on skill.

[Rathlord]

On the bright side, RJ has just made it significantly easier to get kindling for the upcoming patch.

[Hawthorn]

Most cheap lighters can't be refilled and even the ones that can are not designed to let you pour the liquid out. Sure, you can break the lighter, but then it's a single-use firestarter. This could be more wasteful than using a reasonable amount of gas from a can. Proper lighters are more rare and have an uncertain amount of fluid in them (probably 0 when new).

 

What? As you are able to use the internet I have to assume you understand how a lighter works .. but this paragraph is doing its level best to convince me otherwise.

Why oh WHY would you break open a lighter to start a fire?  A single, cheap disposable BIC lighter will start more fires that your gas from a can idea (also your gas will evaporate in a couple months) and good luck carrying gas around .. liquid is heavy.

This entire thread made me laugh, please show me ANY nature, survival, doom preper show that has guys with canteens filled with gas running around to start their fires? Water? SCREW THAT NOISE .. all gas for me .. gas bottles, gas canteens, bowls of gas, nay .. POTS of gas. Bathtubs of gas!!! FLUSH THE SEWERS AND FILL THEM WITH GAS ....   aaaannnnnddddd where are my cigs?

No sane person is suggesting you set a plank on fire with a lighter, you can use any book, pile of leaves, old clothes, sheets, shavings from a board as kindling for a fire. There is enough fire within a 100 yard radius of any urban location to start fires for a human lifetime.

It is only in the deep woods where people die from lack of fire.

[Fj45]

 

Most cheap lighters can't be refilled and even the ones that can are not designed to let you pour the liquid out. Sure, you can break the lighter, but then it's a single-use firestarter. This could be more wasteful than using a reasonable amount of gas from a can. Proper lighters are more rare and have an uncertain amount of fluid in them (probably 0 when new).

 

What? As you are able to use the internet I have to assume you understand how a lighter works .. but this paragraph is doing its level best to convince me otherwise.

Why oh WHY would you break open a lighter to start a fire?  A single, cheap disposable BIC lighter will start more fires that your gas from a can idea (also your gas will evaporate in a couple months) and good luck carrying gas around .. liquid is heavy.

This entire thread made me laugh, please show me ANY nature, survival, doom preper show that has guys with canteens filled with gas running around to start their fires? Water? SCREW THAT NOISE .. all gas for me .. gas bottles, gas canteens, bowls of gas, nay .. POTS of gas. Bathtubs of gas!!! FLUSH THE SEWERS AND FILL THEM WITH GAS ....   aaaannnnnddddd where are my cigs?

No sane person is suggesting you set a plank on fire with a lighter, you can use any book, pile of leaves, old clothes, sheets, shavings from a board as kindling for a fire. There is enough fire within a 100 yard radius of any urban location to start fires for a human lifetime.

It is only in the deep woods where people die from lack of fire.

 

 

Uhh.. what

[LeoIvanov]

 

Most cheap lighters can't be refilled and even the ones that can are not designed to let you pour the liquid out. Sure, you can break the lighter, but then it's a single-use firestarter. This could be more wasteful than using a reasonable amount of gas from a can. Proper lighters are more rare and have an uncertain amount of fluid in them (probably 0 when new).

 

What? As you are able to use the internet I have to assume you understand how a lighter works .. but this paragraph is doing its level best to convince me otherwise.

Why oh WHY would you break open a lighter to start a fire?  A single, cheap disposable BIC lighter will start more fires that your gas from a can idea (also your gas will evaporate in a couple months) and good luck carrying gas around .. liquid is heavy.

This entire thread made me laugh, please show me ANY nature, survival, doom preper show that has guys with canteens filled with gas running around to start their fires? Water? SCREW THAT NOISE .. all gas for me .. gas bottles, gas canteens, bowls of gas, nay .. POTS of gas. Bathtubs of gas!!! FLUSH THE SEWERS AND FILL THEM WITH GAS ....   aaaannnnnddddd where are my cigs?

No sane person is suggesting you set a plank on fire with a lighter, you can use any book, pile of leaves, old clothes, sheets, shavings from a board as kindling for a fire. There is enough fire within a 100 yard radius of any urban location to start fires for a human lifetime.

It is only in the deep woods where people die from lack of fire.

 

 

Dude, chill.

 

RJ already took care of this suggestion, no use going back and discuss things here.

[Szkeptik]

I agree that from a realism standpoint, having a lighter, newspaper, axe and planks on my person and not being able to light a fire is kind of weird. But at the same time, I also see why lighting campfires needs to be kept difficult.

I also don't get why I need logs to keep the fire up and why planks aren't useful. 

[Fj45]

I agree that from a realism standpoint, having a lighter, newspaper, axe and planks on my person and not being able to light a fire is kind of weird. But at the same time, I also see why lighting campfires needs to be kept difficult.

 

 

Why does it need to be kept difficult? Adding difficulty for difficultys sake is a good way to destroy immersion.

 

It will hardly break the game. 

[SoWeMeetAgain]

I can confirm that you can't start a fire with nothing but matches (or even a lighter) and a board. You'll just be wasting your time.

 

I agree with RegularX. If you have a bit of paper/leaves/whatever getting the red stuff to pop up isn't hard, it's the actually getting the logs to burn that takes skill and correctly proportioned kindling. Been hunting and camping (and of course, starting fires) since I was about 8, so it's second nature to me now but I've watched some of my city friends trying to light a fire with a bottle of lighter fluid and a lighter and just ended up taking them away out of mercy after half an hour.

 

If you have a knife you can create smaller sticks from big logs and such, and even create very small shavings which light up preeetty quick.

From experience - making a fire with just (dry) wood, a knife and a lighter is very possible and not hard.

And a sharp axe would work JUST as well as a knife...