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Yet Another Silencer Thread (That will be locked if it gets out of hand . . . )

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I m sure this has been brought up before but, I would love to see silencers and bows and arrows/crossbow added in. They would be great for a good silent way to take out zeds. A 22lr with a silencer would be cool too. Maybe add them to the 9mm pistol, varmit rifle/hunting rifle but they would degrade durability more over time. As it is now, the shooting the hunting rifle is basicly like ringing the dinnerbell.

I'd be against the addition of silencers. Mostly because they don't work in real life like they do in the movies. Real life silencers don't do hardly anything to reduce noise.

 

I'd love to have bows and arrows, though. That would be awesome.

 

au contraire. sure they don´t work like in the movies. but compare this

 

 

 

to a normal gunshot.

 

and this:

especially around 10:00 where he fires a ACC 300 Blackout with subsonic ammunition.

 

thats damn silent for an automatic rifle...

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Then remember that no one is taking decibel readings and we're working on the normalized sound (and range) of a microphone, compressed on YouTube. ;)

Suppressor discussion will be moved to the Suggestions forum if it continues, here. They're not apart of this update (and are a firm "No" from RoboertJohnson). Better to discuss it there.

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and this:

especially around 10:00 where he fires a ACC 300 Blackout with subsonic ammunition.

 

thats damn silent for an automatic rifle...


and this:

especially around 10:00 where he fires a ACC 300 Blackout with subsonic ammunition.

 

thats damn silent for an automatic rifle...

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good decision on the movement of posts.

 

I am not a weapons expert and I don´t think silencers should be in the game. 

 

I don´t know enough about kentucky but if hunting is a real hobby and pastime there, we would need more rifles

and maybe the occasional bow / arrows to be found

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I think the game handles guns well enough as is. I'd not mind guns being somewhat stronger than they are now, but I prefer having to weigh the benefits of their use against the consequences.

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Well I understand why people think "silencers" would be overpowered.

 

But I do think that muffled shots could work as long as they are balanced.

 

It is possible to muffle a shot by securing a plastic bottle over the end of a small caliber rifle barrel. I've tried it. (after watching "Shooter" :P ) it looks stupid, you feel stupid doing it and it doesn't last very long. also, I suspect it could damage or at least jam a semiautomatic rifle but I wasn't willing to test that.

 

Its NOT going to "silence" the shot but merely muffle it to some extent.

 

Game Balance:

 

Plastic Bottle + duct tape + ripped sheets + varmint rifle = suppressed varmint rifle.

 

  • you can only get 1 or 2 shots off before it breaks. (falls off or rips open from pressure)
  • zombies and other players close by will still hear it and will react accordingly.
  • obviously it will take a higher level (4 or 5) of firearm proficiency to assemble this. maybe even some Sneak Skill? Basically it is a high level reward.
  • the bottle is destroyed after the shot (obviously) you would need to sacrifice more bottles.
  • the weapon would wear out faster (dirty)

 

When would you use this?

 

It could be very useful for staying concealed when attacking other players. confusion is a great weapon.

 

you could quietly hunt without attracting loads of zombies or scaring the animal away.

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But didn't someone of the dev team said that even the most silenced shot would probably attract all the zeds on your cell (or whatever that map square before loadings is called :D) towards you? I remember reading it I might be wrong tho.

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But didn't someone of the dev team said that even the most silenced shot would probably attract all the zeds on your cell towards you? I remember reading it I might be wrong tho.

Yep,  if we would stay within the confines of realism, a muffled sound wouldn't have any effect game mechanic wise since the draw area of the zombies is already so small.

 

EDIT: In other words realistically the gun shots already draw zombies from such a small area that it's unrealistic so a "silenced" realistic shot would draw the crowd from a bigger area a real shot does now. And it's not possible engine-wise, atm at least.

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Muffled shots would do well for not attracting zombies from a longer distance.
A pillow might help muffle a 9mm shot at most, which would alert zombies in a closer vicinity and at distances zombies would begin to wander in the direction.

Silenced weapons, if added, should be special to suited areas (strict military grounds, perhaps with NPCs?), and should only be for weapons that make sense.

In my opinion, varying firearms and ranged weapons should be added in before a silenced weapon could be added in.
Perhaps a 9mm silenced pistol would be suitable enough later down the line?

Edit:
One use would be for multiplayer, where it would be harder to distinguish a muffled shot from ambience or a zombie at a distance?

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But didn't someone of the dev team said that even the most silenced shot would probably attract all the zeds on your cell towards you? I remember reading it I might be wrong tho.

Yep,  if we would stay within the confines of realism, a muffled sound wouldn't have any effect game mechanic wise since the draw area of the zombies is already so small.

 

EDIT: In other words realistically the gun shots already draw zombies from such a small area that it's unrealistic so a "silenced" realistic shot would draw the crowd from a bigger area a real shot does now. And it's not possible engine-wise, atm at least.

 

riiiiiiggghhhttt ok fair enough. scratch that then.

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Whelp, here we are again. My 50th "silencer" thread since joining the PZ forums. I'll keep it short.

 

First and foremost, as was mentioned above, the amount of the game that is 'streamed' (aka active that the player and zombies can interact with) at a time is smaller than the range of sound you'd get even with a suppressed and subsonic ammo .22 rifle would get you. So the whole idea doesn't matter at all.

 

As per a study I posted in another thread with actual facts checked with decibel meters, even a .22 rifle with a professional suppressor and subsonic ammo will be able to be heard from at least a mile away and that was their lowest result. I'll track down the link to the study if anyone really doesn't believe me.

 

As per the federal government via tax stamps, the amount of suppressors in Kentucky numbers under 3,000 total for the whole state. This even includes things like that stupid thread-on piece for oil filters to be used as suppressors. They require tax stamps as well. Again, if someone really doesn't believe me I'll find the link again.

 

And as I've mentioned time and again: both YouTube (or other video sites) and camcorders normalize volume as it's recorded. Even professional sound equipment does that. Please don't post YouTube videos to try to prove a point about suppressors. Even if the people aren't doctoring the sound (which I believe, especially, the oil filter suppressor people are as they're trying to sell a product [mainly to idiots]), it's still not an accurate representation.

 

Thanks all.

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What I see suppressors being used for in PZ:
- Being able to have a different gunshot sound, for use in multiplayer it would change the sounds another player with a gun could make. In turn, it may be hard to figure out if it was a gunshot or just ambience.
- Being cocky: "I got a silencer on my shotgun"
- Adding variation, perhaps for role-play purposes (navy seal role play anyone?)


All in all, this should be more or less an addon/mod for the game rather than being in the actual game.

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I understand the concern about them being overpowered, but as it stands now, if you shoot a gun zeds will swarm you. I look at it like this, maybe if the only silencer in the game is for a 22lr. I mean it is kentucky, they should be extremely rare loot. Possible only found in the gun store in westpoint and north of westpoint at the gun range. A good solution to the problem would be to have 2 types of ammo for it. 22lr subsonic, which is very rare that will not alert zeds in a very close range maybe 20-30 tiles in every direction. And a normal 22lr ammo that attracts zombies less range than a normal 9mm. I feel like it would be nice to reward characters who want to use guns other than to go arround and clear a large horde of them, like the police officer class, so they can sort of silent kill.

 

If the devs don't want to add them, I understand, but guns are just for clearing large group of zeds there is no point in having them other than that. Maybe they could make it, only useable at guns level 4-5, with bonuses if using the police officer trait. Also having them degrade the weapon much more if the silencer is attached to the 22lr especially if the character uses non subsonic ammo.

 

There is really no tactical advantage of using guns other than to kill hordes of zombies. If you want to keep realism you should just add in a bunch of fully automatic weapons ak47/m4a1 etc. I mean this is the south, there are a lot of guns around.

 

But, I do feel they should add bows and arrows if they want to forgo silencers completely.

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There is really no tactical advantage of using guns other than to kill hordes of zombies.

Sure there is. It's called "Fighting Other Survivors". It's only a feature in multiplayer at the moment, but once NPCs finally get added you'll be using guns for fighting other people more often than you would the zombies.

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Whelp, here we are again. My 50th "silencer" thread since joining the PZ forums. I'll keep it short.

 

/snip

 

As per a study I posted in another thread with actual facts checked with decibel meters, even a .22 rifle with a professional suppressor and subsonic ammo will be able to be heard from at least a mile away and that was their lowest result. I'll track down the link to the study if anyone really doesn't believe me.

 

/snip again

1st and foremost: sorry to bother you , but some guys do other stuff rather than cleaning forums. i mean that. sorry if this topic annoys you.

 

2nd: I would very much love to see that study, just out of pure curiosity. you can pm me the link .. would very much appreciate that

 

3rd: i certainly don´t have pro-sound-equipment but even on that stuff I can deactivate normalization of sound. I can deactivate it on my mic / headset on my pc if I wanted to, and that sound card / headset is onboard....

 

and to the guys saying it doesnt offer tactical advantage.. i would much rather attract zeds (if needed) in a 1 mile radius rather than 3 or more.

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I understand the concern about them being overpowered, but as it stands now, if you shoot a gun zeds will swarm you. I look at it like this, maybe if the only silencer in the game is for a 22lr. I mean it is kentucky, they should be extremely rare loot. Possible only found in the gun store in westpoint and north of westpoint at the gun range. A good solution to the problem would be to have 2 types of ammo for it. 22lr subsonic, which is very rare that will not alert zeds in a very close range maybe 20-30 tiles in every direction. And a normal 22lr ammo that attracts zombies less range than a normal 9mm. I feel like it would be nice to reward characters who want to use guns other than to go arround and clear a large horde of them, like the police officer class, so they can sort of silent kill.

 

If the devs don't want to add them, I understand, but guns are just for clearing large group of zeds there is no point in having them other than that. Maybe they could make it, only useable at guns level 4-5, with bonuses if using the police officer trait. Also having them degrade the weapon much more if the silencer is attached to the 22lr especially if the character uses non subsonic ammo.

 

There is really no tactical advantage of using guns other than to kill hordes of zombies. If you want to keep realism you should just add in a bunch of fully automatic weapons ak47/m4a1 etc. I mean this is the south, there are a lot of guns around.

 

But, I do feel they should add bows and arrows if they want to forgo silencers completely.

we don't have a 22 in the game. when the new rifles were being added back in Build 28, RJ did  a lot of fact checking to see if it would be better to bring in a 22 or something like the 223. obviously, as the Varmint rifle shoots the 223 round we know the results.

 

not directed to any one person here, but i keep saying this over and over. if the Devs make a decision not to add Item X to the Vanilla game, check the available mods or learn how to make a mod with Item X in it. if i'm not mistaken, Tommysticks Minimalist gun mod has a silencer for the base pistol

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1st and foremost: sorry to bother you , but some guys do other stuff rather than cleaning forums. i mean that. sorry if this topic annoys you.

Notice the title of the thread? Consider how a comment like that may be taken as unlovely, even if we just assume you didn't mean it as offense, or ignorant.

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Whelp, here we are again. My 50th "silencer" thread since joining the PZ forums. I'll keep it short.

 

/snip

 

As per a study I posted in another thread with actual facts checked with decibel meters, even a .22 rifle with a professional suppressor and subsonic ammo will be able to be heard from at least a mile away and that was their lowest result. I'll track down the link to the study if anyone really doesn't believe me.

 

/snip again

1st and foremost: sorry to bother you , but some guys do other stuff rather than cleaning forums. i mean that. sorry if this topic annoys you.

 

2nd: I would very much love to see that study, just out of pure curiosity. you can pm me the link .. would very much appreciate that

 

3rd: i certainly don´t have pro-sound-equipment but even on that stuff I can deactivate normalization of sound. I can deactivate it on my mic / headset on my pc if I wanted to, and that sound card / headset is onboard....

 

and to the guys saying it doesnt offer tactical advantage.. i would much rather attract zeds (if needed) in a 1 mile radius rather than 3 or more.

 

 

Will see if I can't track down the link.

 

And you're wrong, you can't deactivate normalization of sound beyond a certain point- sorry. Sound equipment can't record or encode sound over a certain amount of dB, and that cap is significantly lower than the sound of a gunshot- even a suppressed and subsonic one.

 

Regarding the tactical advantage... read my first paragraph again. The game doesn't stream 3 miles, and it doesn't stream one mile. It doesn't even stream half a mile. There's no way for this to happen.

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I'm having trouble finding the original link I posted (I think the thread may have been archived) but here's another informative one: http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/11/gun-silencers-dont-make-them-anywhere-near-silent/

 

The original link they were able to get the sound down to somewhere around 110 dB (which is lower than the link above references), but that was with the better kind of suppressor if I recall correctly (the kind with rubber washers that wear down in only a few dozen shots) and they tried a whole range of subsonic ammo to get the result.

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I'm having trouble finding the original link I posted (I think the thread may have been archived) but here's another informative one: http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/11/gun-silencers-dont-make-them-anywhere-near-silent/

 

The original link they were able to get the sound down to somewhere around 110 dB (which is lower than the link above references), but that was with the better kind of suppressor if I recall correctly (the kind with rubber washers that wear down in only a few dozen shots) and they tried a whole range of subsonic ammo to get the result.

 

That 117dB mentioned even with the subsonics is hella loud! :D(compared to that 110dB it's twice as loud in sound pressure levels... (dB is logarithmic)) And to add to that comparison about police sirens, a gunshot has much lower frequencies so the sound will travel much further than a police siren so in a way it's a bad comparison, at least in this topic. I'd compare it more to a rock concert where you hear the low bass as you start getting closer to the stage. And even those nowadays have systems that demp the bass (with complicated sound phase systems of which I have no idea how they really work so don't ask...) so that it won't travel as far.

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