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Lothar

Just bitchin' a bit..

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Now, can somebody tell me why the fuck I kill zeds like lambs with knives? (1 hit kill)

But with a damn Axe or other blunt I can't beat the shit out of them? (can be 1, so damn rare, or 10 hit)

 

I mean... it's quite nonsense.

I've just think about that wile I was working in the joinery.. I thought: "I can easly smash my collegue head with one shot with an axe, why can't I do it in PZ?". You can tell it was an hard day.

 

Ok. I have complained enought, no real need to tell me why. I'm ok with that but you know.. just to. 

 

Your turn.

 

 

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Well post 9.15 (I think it was) it became a lot harder to get a one hit kill, since it seems there's a much higher chance that the "downed" zom is really just a new zom with lower HP.  The biggest advantage to knife is that it requires nearly no charge time at all, unlike an axe.  So getting that second hit to finish them off is a lot quicker.  Just tap tap.

 

Personally I'd like to see the better weapons, or weapons capable of doing X amount of damage, having a higher chance of a proper decapitation of a zom.

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I think its good, knife wont last long and you have to get very close, where as the fire axe should only take 2-3 swings without skill points which is realistic enough, your not going to get a clean head sever on a moving target everytime. With this you get longer lasting durability and to keep target at a distance so I feel its equally balanced.

 

Sorry i bet that's not what you wanted to hear!

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Well post 9.15 (I think it was) it became a lot harder to get a one hit kill, since it seems there's a much higher chance that the "downed" zom is really just a new zom with lower HP. The biggest advantage to knife is that it requires nearly no charge time at all, unlike an axe. So getting that second hit to finish them off is a lot quicker. Just tap tap.

Personally I'd like to see the better weapons, or weapons capable of doing X amount of damage, having a higher chance of a proper decapitation of a zom.

Yeah, that's what I want to see to. Not just "hit them nice and softly wile they are on the floor".

Nice to hear that knives are less deadly in post .15..

I think its good, knife wont last long and you have to get very close, where as the fire axe should only take 2-3 swings without skill points which is realistic enough, your not going to get a clean head sever on a moving target everytime. With this you get longer lasting durability and to keep target at a distance so I feel its equally balanced.

Sorry i bet that's not what you wanted to hear!

No that's ok!

But man "realistic"? even my 15 years old sister could kill a man with an axe in one good shot.. so think at what a construction worker, strong, light drinker, prone to rage, brooding guy named "Jack the Beast" would do to a man's head? :evil:

Because a 2h weapon that hits multiple zeds and kills in one hit would be insanely OP?

No need to be always one hit.. even a 20-25% would be good.

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Zombies do get up a lot more often after they're down - almost every time, in fact.  Double-tapping zombies is pretty much a necessity unless you want to deal with a crawler in a few seconds.

 

The knife is faster, so it's better for this, killing the zed faster and leaving you less vulnerable during the lengthly swing animation.  Also, I believe the one-hit-kill has to be done at approximately kissing distance.  it's effective if you can pull it off consistently but if you miss you're a lot more likely to get scratched or bitten.  This plus the fact that the knife doesn't really knock back zeds on hit makes for a better balancing act.

 

That said, I wouldn't mind a 20% chance for instant decapitation with a fire axe, or other heavy two-handed bladed weapon.  It just makes sense to me.  Maybe you'd have to charge your swing to get the chance of decapitaion?  That would be a decent way to represent taking careful aim.

 

Here's an idea: For each skill point in the blades category, a weapon capable of decapitation (axe, sword, lawn mower, dental floss, whatever, who cares) gets a 5% chance to decapitate on every hit.  Someone at maximum skill would have a 25% chance of lopping a zed's head off with every normal swing.  Then, you can charge your swing to add up to an additional 20% to that chance, based on how long you hold the charge without moving.  In total, a skilled player weilding an axe and having charged a swing would have a 45% chance of decapitating the zed right there.  A player with no skill could still charge their swing for a 20% chance but couldn't decapitate with their regular swings like a skilled player could.

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But with a damn Axe or other blunt I can't beat the shit out of them? (can be 1, so damn rare, or 10 hit)

 

 

I also had this issue, the problem is that you have to charge certain weapons. Try holding (for example) the bat for 2-3 seconds before hitting them.

They usually are instantly knocked out and you can easily finish them off with another loaded hit on the downed zed.

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I don't see any nonsense here, except for your post which kinda looks like you made up the facts.

 

A knife is a sharp, short weapon that you probably try to stick into the zombie's head. This usually results in a death after 1-2 swings.

However, the knife won't last forever and after a while, your knife will eventually be stuck in a zombie's head.

 

The axe is a multitool weapon, which can be used for fighting zombies. I have no idea how bad your aiming skills are, but it DOES knock down the zombie on the first hit and then execute it on the second hit.

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Here's an idea: For each skill point in the blades category, a weapon capable of decapitation (axe, sword, lawn mower, dental floss, whatever, who cares) gets a 5% chance to decapitate on every hit.  Someone at maximum skill would have a 25% chance of lopping a zed's head off with every normal swing.  Then, you can charge your swing to add up to an additional 20% to that chance, based on how long you hold the charge without moving.  In total, a skilled player weilding an axe and having charged a swing would have a 45% chance of decapitating the zed right there.  A player with no skill could still charge their swing for a 20% chance but couldn't decapitate with their regular swings like a skilled player could.

 

 

Yeah, I was thinking it would be some combo of 1) Randomness, 2) type of weap, 3) Xp, 4) Attack Charge and possibly 5) Panic

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It's worth mentioning that no matter how strong you are, you won't be severing a spinal cord in one swing with a plain axe. The only times axes can be used for decapitation is if the subject is laying on the ground on a block and you have an executioner's axe (probably 5x heavier than a normal axe, at least 3x heavier than a fireman's weighted axe) and you let gravity do most of the work. There's been plenty of evidence to suggest that accounts of decapitation with axes, swords, and the like in combat situations are entirely made up. I can cite sources if you're interested.

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It's worth mentioning that no matter how strong you are, you won't be severing a spinal cord in one swing with a plain axe. The only times axes can be used for decapitation is if the subject is laying on the ground on a block and you have an executioner's axe (probably 5x heavier than a normal axe, at least 3x heavier than a fireman's weighted axe) and you let gravity do most of the work. There's been plenty of evidence to suggest that accounts of decapitation with axes, swords, and the like are entirely made up. I can cite sources if you're interested.

I recall this being true, isn't this why the guillotine was invented for effective executions?

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Yeah, the guillotine was invented because it made executions "clean and humane."  Hanging was drawn out and painful, and even decapitations during executions could be botched if the executioner didn't aim right or the axe wasn't sharp enough.  I can't cite any sources but I recall this being true.

 

I also recall that the inventor of the guillotine thought that it would actually deter execution when people saw how easily and efficiently life cound be invented.  Instead it sparked thousands of executions across France.  Again, no sources. :P

 

Maybe it's more in terms of gameplay than realism that I think a skilled weilder should be able to OHKO a zombie.  Then again, the fire axe is a pretty good weapon already.

 

Edited because the bit about the guillotine's inventor being killed in one isn't true as far as i can tell.

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Yes, and why headsman's axes had to be massive and incredibly heavy.

 

I don't mind being able to one hit kill zombies with axes sometimes- that's entirely possible. But trying to decapitate a zombie is just going to get your axe stone in its neck while it eats you.

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It's worth mentioning that no matter how strong you are, you won't be severing a spinal cord in one swing with a plain axe. The only times axes can be used for decapitation is if the subject is laying on the ground on a block and you have an executioner's axe (probably 5x heavier than a normal axe, at least 3x heavier than a fireman's weighted axe) and you let gravity do most of the work. There's been plenty of evidence to suggest that accounts of decapitation with axes, swords, and the like are entirely made up. I can cite sources if you're interested.

 

Sure, but it's also probably worth mentioning that we're talking decomposed bodies here and taking off 3/4's of the old brain pain by way of the face will do the job.

 

I suppose to be more specific, I'm not necessarily voting for decap'ing with like a head popping off animation.  That might get cheesy fast, actually, now that I think of it.  But zom stories/movies have loads of ways of "destroying the brain", and it seems like in the newer builds we're lacking some of that.

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It's worth mentioning that no matter how strong you are, you won't be severing a spinal cord in one swing with a plain axe. The only times axes can be used for decapitation is if the subject is laying on the ground on a block and you have an executioner's axe (probably 5x heavier than a normal axe, at least 3x heavier than a fireman's weighted axe) and you let gravity do most of the work. There's been plenty of evidence to suggest that accounts of decapitation with axes, swords, and the like are entirely made up. I can cite sources if you're interested.

 

Sure, but it's also probably worth mentioning that we're talking decomposed bodies here and taking off 3/4's of the old brain pain by way of the face will do the job.

 

I suppose to be more specific, I'm not necessarily voting for decap'ing with like a head popping off animation.  That might get cheesy fast, actually, now that I think of it.  But zom stories/movies have loads of ways of "destroying the brain", and it seems like in the newer builds we're lacking some of that.

 

 

Like I said above, I'm perfectly fine with one hit kill head shots. Just not decapitation. Even just trying to cut through a spinal cord (not including the flesh) with an axe would probably be pretty challenging. Next time I go hunting I'll go to where we dump the carcasses after we skin them and I'll try it out with my (weighted) fireman's axe.

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Rathlord doesn't know what he's talking about. He's trying to justify a legitimate problem in the game. 

wxtirKR.pngModerator Warning

Informal warning.

Be lovely.

-EG

As for your sources of 'decapitation with axes, swords, and the like are entirely made up', I've seen some very, very gruesome stuff on the internet. Cold blooded executions, beheadings, things that would really mess with your head. Believe me when I say, it is very much possible to decapitate someone with an axe or a sword. 
 

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Rathlord doesn't know what he's talking about. He's trying to justify a legitimate problem in the game. 

 

As for your sources of 'decapitation with axes, swords, and the like are entirely made up', I've seen some very, very gruesome stuff on the internet. Cold blooded executions, beheadings, things that would really mess with your head. Believe me when I say, it is very much possible to decapitate someone with an axe or a sword. 

 

Well played, sir. You managed to be rude and offensive and simultaneously provide no evidence except hearsay. All around a magnificent cocktail of "what not to do when posting." Even in the few documented cases of decapitations there are several caveats:

 

*It's done by professionals with training in how to aim, swing, and follow through with the weapon

*It's done with a freshly sharpened blade. Dull blades exponentially decrease your chances of cutting clean through

*It's done to a still target that's not wobbling or moving around while you're trying to chop. Decapitation with a weapon swung sideways (rather than downwards like an executioner's axe) relies on going between vertebrae.

 

The best swords for decapitations are curved swords which allow for maximum damage to a minimum surface area. This, again, requires an insanely sharp blade. Axes have the same benefit of a curved blade (for the most part), but are much harder to aim correctly when at arms length.

 

So yes, decapitating someone is possible but not plausible in a real world situation with dull tools you've picked up out of someone's garage.

 

Edit: And while I appreciated your "I've seen it on teh internetz" proof, I'll take my personal experience in hunting and butchering animals over that any day.

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Yeah, I'm with Rathlord and would like to withdraw my earlier usage of the term "decapitation" and stick to "instakill".  Aside from being needlessly unrealistic, it definitely borders on silly.  What's next, chopping off limbs and bad Black Knight jokes?

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Yeah, I'm with Rathlord and would like to withdraw my earlier usage of the term "decapitation" and stick to "instakill".  Aside from being needlessly unrealistic, it definitely borders on silly.  What's next, chopping off limbs and bad Black Knight jokes?

What!?!? LISTEN TO ME! There are no bad Black Knight jokes, okay!?

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Worry not. Knifes aren't 1 hit kill anymore post .15

 

They may make zombies fall in 1 hit, but you'd have to stab the downed one atleast 1 more time (it may end up being 8 times too).

 

In real life you can beat the shit out of person with a baseball bat and he will still be alive. Imagine the same deal with a zombie, who ignore/don't feel pain and need their brain to be SHATTERED to die. So for me 1 Charged hit + 2-5 downed hits is completely fair and realistic to take down a zombie.

 

Axes are another deal. If you don't apply enough damage it might get stuck in zombie's body. It'd be good if you hit the brain,he'll just fall down dead, but what if the axe is stuck in zombie's shoulder, and he keeps going towards you? Nearly impossible to pull out then.

 

The system is fine as it is :)

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In real life you can beat the shit out of person with a baseball bat and they will live, yes.  But they will also use their arms to defend their head, flinch away from blows and generally try to preserve themselves in any way possible.  The fact that zombies don't do this probably actually contributes to you hitting them in the skull with one good swing.  It doesn't even have to be sideways - especially in the case of the axe - one well-aimed overhead swing at full force would probably brain a zombie.

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Yeah, I'm with Rathlord and would like to withdraw my earlier usage of the term "decapitation" and stick to "instakill".  Aside from being needlessly unrealistic, it definitely borders on silly.  What's next, chopping off limbs and bad Black Knight jokes?

What!?!? LISTEN TO ME! There are no bad Black Knight jokes, okay!?

 

 

 

Runs off to write a mod where the player doesn't die - just becomes immobile and complains about flesh wounds every minute... 

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In real life you can beat the shit out of person with a baseball bat and they will live, yes.  But they will also use their arms to defend their head, flinch away from blows and generally try to preserve themselves in any way possible.  The fact that zombies don't do this probably actually contributes to you hitting them in the skull with one good swing.  It doesn't even have to be sideways - especially in the case of the axe - one well-aimed overhead swing at full force would probably brain a zombie.

 

The first lesson in pretty much any weapons course is "never do an overhead swing because it ends in you being dead." Possibly slightly less effective on a zombie, but a miss is still instant death for you.

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It's worth mentioning that no matter how strong you are, you won't be severing a spinal cord in one swing with a plain axe. The only times axes can be used for decapitation is if the subject is laying on the ground on a block and you have an executioner's axe (probably 5x heavier than a normal axe, at least 3x heavier than a fireman's weighted axe) and you let gravity do most of the work. There's been plenty of evidence to suggest that accounts of decapitation with axes, swords, and the like in combat situations are entirely made up. I can cite sources if you're interested.

Didn't know that.. fun fact!

Worry not. Knifes aren't 1 hit kill anymore post .15

They may make zombies fall in 1 hit, but you'd have to stab the downed one atleast 1 more time (it may end up being 8 times too).

In real life you can beat the shit out of person with a baseball bat and he will still be alive. Imagine the same deal with a zombie, who ignore/don't feel pain and need their brain to be SHATTERED to die. So for me 1 Charged hit + 2-5 downed hits is completely fair and realistic to take down a zombie.

Axes are another deal. If you don't apply enough damage it might get stuck in zombie's body. It'd be good if you hit the brain,he'll just fall down dead, but what if the axe is stuck in zombie's shoulder, and he keeps going towards you? Nearly impossible to pull out then.

The system is fine as it is

Seems like you are one of the fews that have understand that my Topic is deliberately a (how do you say in english: 'na strunzata?) pointless. No need to arguing. "I'm ok with that" like I've said!

:)

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