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RobertJohnson

RELEASED: Build 30.12

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New build 30.10!

 

  • No more fishing during winter.

 

What's the reason behind this? You can easily fish during winters much harsher then those in Kentucky. Even if your body of water is frozen you still can drill or chop a hole in the ice using an axe. What should be done is success rate of fishing should be lowered significantly - let's say 1/10 - 1/20 of normal success rate as fish are less active in winter. That's my opinion.

 

zimowe_pstragi_2.jpg

 

Agree with you... man i still do Spearfishing in winter in the Atlantic Ocean when the see let me FFS XD so fishing with a line wouldnt be a problem... I think it should be reduced the chance of success too :)

 

There is fishing in winter, just lot less chance of catching anything.  

 

Thats not what RJ says, so what is it? I mean no fishing in the winter is to me too a bit too harsh, and unlikely.

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New build 30.10!

 

  • No more fishing during winter.

 

What's the reason behind this? You can easily fish during winters much harsher then those in Kentucky. Even if your body of water is frozen you still can drill or chop a hole in the ice using an axe. What should be done is success rate of fishing should be lowered significantly - let's say 1/10 - 1/20 of normal success rate as fish are less active in winter. That's my opinion.

 

zimowe_pstragi_2.jpg

 

Agree with you... man i still do Spearfishing in winter in the Atlantic Ocean when the see let me FFS XD so fishing with a line wouldnt be a problem... I think it should be reduced the chance of success too :)

 

There is fishing in winter, just lot less chance of catching anything.  

 

Thats not what RJ says, so what is it? I mean no fishing in the winter is to me too a bit too harsh, and unlikely.

 

Yeah, i dicked that up, meant to say there should be fishing in the winter since there really is, just lot less chance of catching.  

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New build 30.10!

 

  • No more fishing during winter.

 

I'm all for raising the difficulty, but I think this may be a bit extreme. I know it probably got buried in this thread, but I put some feedback on foraging probably not working right during the winter. I was still able to find TONS of food even with snow on the ground (even going as far as finding worms while it was snowing).

 

Fishing probably shouldn't be completely disabled during the winter, but I do think foraging needs more of a winter nerf along with finding worms (you realistically wold NOT be able to find them unless you were digging 5 to 6 feet deep). If you remove fishing, then it is inevitable that ANY player will eventually die (assuming the amount of food you find with foraging right now is a bug). My reasoning....

 

Farming - Can't do it during the winter anymore, and canning materials are Non-Renewable. Eventually farming will have zero purpose once the cans run out.

 

Trapping - Directly tied to farming. Assuming that your not meant to find worms during the winter (which should really be a thing) you will eventually have no means of trapping with the current system. Also, worms need to be able to rot.

 

Fishing - Supposedly disabled now during the winter. I'm a fan for making it harder, but disabling it may very well lead to problems.

 

Foraging - Suppose to be disabled or very difficult during the winter. Right now that currently is not the case. Oversight perhaps? This needs some clearing up. Several foraging items still don't rot as well.

 

Digging - Infinite worm supply yo! But seriously, this needs addressed for winter time.

 

Hopefully you can clear this up RJ, as this could be VERY problematic for late game. The foraging change was unclear as if its working properly or not (I personally don't think it is since I'm finding too much during the winter still along with certain items that should NOT be available during the winter such as insects/worms) and if the fishing change is literal, then you've made the only 2 choices for surviving long term foraging and............digging worms.

 

Digging worms should NOT be a thing during the winter, and foraging needs some nerfs still. Until trapping has some kind of trap that is NOT associated with bait, it and farming will eventually become useless winter skills.

 

Anyways, I know it was a long read, but hopefully you can clear up some of the confusion RJ.

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I think Foraging should work even in winter, as trapping should too... I am a Begginer bushcrafter in real life and I know you can do both in winter... Animals dont disappear in winter in Kentucky for they are ready to live in both warm and cold weather because they addapted to do it. Any good bushcrafter knows ways to find food both in roots and leafs/fruits from trees. and even in winter it is possible to find so...

 

 

Summer time: Foraging, fishing and trapping =======> Normal

 

Winter time: Foraging =====> Very rare

                     Trapping ====> Very rare

                     Fishing: ======> Rare

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I think Foraging should work even in winter, as trapping should too... I am a Begginer bushcrafter in real life and I know you can do both in winter... Animals dont disappear in winter in Kentucky for they are ready to live in both warm and cold weather because they addapted to do it. Any good bushcrafter knows ways to find food both in roots and leafs/fruits from trees. and even in winter it is possible to find so...

 

 

Summer time: Foraging, fishing and trapping =======> Normal

 

Winter time: Foraging =====> Very rare

                     Trapping ====> Very rare

                     Fishing: ======> Rare

 

Some of the stuff SHOULD disappear from the loot table though. Your simply not gonna find most insects or worms during the winter.

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Cool. I always felt time passed too quickly in survival. I don't know about the fishing change; even though I don't use fishing as a food source very often myself, I do know that it's very much possible to fish in cold months. I assume the change was made to force people to use the preserving system more.

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Question: Will servers be able to set the season they want and keep it that way until they feel the want to change it? As in, if you want it to always be summer can you keep it that way until you feel having it change to fall?

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since we have a shortage of suply in winter how about the in german called erdmieten? It´s more or less a hole in the earth, put f.e. potatos in an a tarp over it and then cover it with earth again. We always do that with potatos, carrots and turnips and the last there over winter. It´s only possible with hard flesh veggies so it would give a bit without being overpowered and they still rot so you can only do it year by year

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since we have a shortage of suply in winter how about the in german called erdmieten? It´s more or less a hole in the earth, put f.e. potatos in an a tarp over it and then cover it with earth again. We always do that with potatos, carrots and turnips and the last there over winter. It´s only possible with hard flesh veggies so it would give a bit without being overpowered and they still rot so you can only do it year by year

 

We should be able to construct a cellar.

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Am I the only PZ player that wants the game to be harder?

 

No fishing in winter is fine.  Man up yo.

 

Fishing is possible in winter, though. And I don't think they're aiming for a total lack of realism for the sake of difficulty, just semi-lack of realism.

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Challenge is fine, to the extent that it doesn't make people playing the game say "wait a minute, that makes no sense".

 

So they must provide a plausable real-life reason for all game mechanics? Nonsense.

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Am I the only PZ player that wants the game to be harder?

 

No fishing in winter is fine.  Man up yo.

 

Its not that we don't want it to be harder, but we want it to be realistic and challenging (with concessions made for gameplay of course).

 

My earlier post detailed the inevitable problems of this change. Right now there are some issues that will hopefully be addressed.

 

1. Worms - Infinite food supply all year long that doesn't rot.

 

2. Trapping and Farming - Once the lids run out, these two will have very little use during the winter with the exceptions of a) Currently way too easy to obtain year round worms (which shouldn't be available during the winter) and b) level 4 and 5 cooking which, in a sense, works better than canning and would allow you to save crops year round. Problem is, once cooking and worms are addressed, farming and trapping will become useless for winter time survival. Not the worst thing possible, but perhaps something that should be addressed.

 

3. Foraging - Nearly everything that comes from foraging DOES NOT ROT! On top of that, despite RJ claiming that it would be near-impossible to forage during the cold, I am still getting tons of food (and even worms!) when it is snowing. Foraging needs addressed, as it is certainly not working as intended.

 

So, there is the problem. If level 4 and 5 cooking, foraging, and worms are addressed, this creates a time limit on your survival game. With the assumption that level 4/5 cooking, foraging, and worms change, the only renewable food source during the winter would be fishing and possibly foraging.

 

Right now some things are unclear, like how much foraging was meant to be nerfed in cold weather (right now I can't tell any difference). It makes little sense to find worms/insects during the winter. On top of that, trapping is REQUIRED to have bait (we really need some baitless trap mechanics). So, once you run out of lids, you run out of veggies to use for bait (assuming worms are properly nerfed).

 

In conclusion, I don't want an artificial cap to be created on survival time, but right now a lot of the sources of food need to be addressed. I'm fine with nerfing fishing during the winter, but a lot of other food sources need addressing, as well as some clarification on foraging since it is NOT working as stated at the moment.

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Challenge is fine, to the extent that it doesn't make people playing the game say "wait a minute, that makes no sense".

 

So they must provide a plausable real-life reason for all game mechanics? Nonsense.

 

 

What I meant was that they should (and generally do) avoid things that break suspension of disbelief. From a survival standpoint, I don't care if they trash the fishing system entirely, I don't use it other than for novelty. More generally, though, I do care about the game's verisimilitude being compromised for the sake of making people use the canning system.

 

Moose - a well-written post, I agree with you completely. If it were impossible to see out a winter without being able to put things in sealed jars then life on earth would've ended long go. But the emphasis for surviving winter should rightly be on preservation - it just shouldn't take a non-renewable resource to preserve things. You should be able to store your veggies in cellars, cure/smoke/dry your meat and fish, etc. I do have faith that canning is not the devs' final word on food preservation in PZ.

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Challenge is fine, to the extent that it doesn't make people playing the game say "wait a minute, that makes no sense".

 

So they must provide a plausable real-life reason for all game mechanics? Nonsense.

 

 

What I meant was that they should (and generally do) avoid things that break suspension of disbelief.

 

 

The trouble is, if you want a plausble reason to explain a mechanic in a fictional game, then a fictional reason could easily be given.

 

It could easily be explained by simply stating that characters in this fictional world have no knowledge, expertise or appropriate equipment to successfully carry out certain tasks.    You could also argue that the species of fish in this.. again, fictional envoiroment, simple dont take the bait thats available for use.

 

Its certainly not unbeleivable and you could provide any number of belivable reasons.

 

While individuals in the real world may indeed be able to carry out certain tasks, that doesnt automatically mean that every human alive is capable,  fictional or non-fictional.

 

But arguing reasons and explanations isnt really the point,  every time a new challenge is added to this game its met with cries and complaints, as someone who enjoys a challenge I find it sad.

 

No doubt they will add this as a sandbox option to cater for those who cry about it.

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You're right, it's easy enough to explain the no fish in winter thing away if you ignore reality. What I'm finding harder to explain is your overt smarmy hostility toward people pointing out that the change simply makes no sense.

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What about worms in winter?

So far I know, the optimum temperature for most of earthworm species is 10 to 14 ° C. In addition, they need moist soil. Thereby, in summer and winter earthworms are less or not active. Earthworms spend the winter months (December to February) 40 to 80cm below ground level in a kind of hibernation. Entire colonies of bundled worms can be found frequently under ground heat storage structures such as tree stumps or stones. The ground under a tightly closed snow cover is usually protected against cold and not frozen. Thus, in some places you can find earthworms that are even in winter active in the area of the surface soil.

Therefore, you are able to find worms in winter! If you keep them in a little box with a bit of moist soil in it, they should be able to survive for months.

 

However, I support the idea given above, that mushrooms and berries should not be found in winter, and other stuff such as worms or crickets should be very rare during winter. An easier food perservation should also be implemented.

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Yeah, it would be easy to explain the no fish in winter thing away, if you ignore reality. What I'm finding harder to explain is your overt smarmy hostility to people pointing out that the change simply makes no sense.

And this is my point which you are being equaliy ignorant about which I too find myself having to repeat.

 

it DOES make sense. Its perfectly reasonable, perfectly plausable and makes absoloute sense.

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Huh? Initially you said nothing more than "it's for challenge, man up yo". Then you said it didn't have to make sense. Now you say you've been saying it makes sense all along. Meanwhile people can and do ice fish along the Mississippi in winter. What are you talking about?

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Huh? Initially you said nothing more than "it's for challenge, man up yo". Then you said it didn't have to make sense. Now you say you've been saying it makes sense all along. Meanwhile people can and do ice fish along the Mississippi in winter. What are you talking about?

 

Yes, the change does make sense to me, immediatly.  Not only providing a good game related mechanic but a perfectly reasonble real life situation.

 

Since it made perfect sense to me, I presumed, wrongly, that these the arguments about "realism" were a bit silly and short sighted, more likley to be a cover or pretense simply to argue semantics or to make the game easier.  After all, complaints of difficulty are abundant right now so this explains my initial statements.

 

But you have enlightened me and I do now understand that some genuinly beleive that it makes "no sense" and are unable to imagine this situation and that there cannot be any possible explanantion.  So alow me re-iterate why, to me, it makes perfect sense and provide an explanation.   Even though I'm not a dev.

 

The world is a very large place,  there are indeed parts of the world were winter is so harsh that to catch a fish would require *special* knowledge.  Skill. Experience AND equipment.

 

If indeed Project zomboid is the real world, or even a close facsimile,  then its entirly beleiveble, plausable and sensible to presume that in this 'small' part of the world, Winter is so harsh that to catch the available fish would require certain knowledge, skills, experience AND equipment ! of which ONE or ALL are currently un-available to the characters in this particular corner of the world.

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