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RobertJohnson

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I have a quick question and wondering if it's a bug or not.  I was trying out the new patch today and to try it out I put the zombies memory to poor and sight to poor and kept everything else normal.  I walked outside in sneak mode and zombies from slightly off screen were seeing me and came running over.  I was like "wait did I put these zombies on eagle eye?".  So I restarted and reset and double checked all the settings and did it again, same thing.  I then put the zombies on eagle eye to see and I pulled even more zombies.  Are zombies supposed to be like this now or is something messed up with zombie settings?

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I have a quick question and wondering if it's a bug or not.  I was trying out the new patch today and to try it out I put the zombies memory to poor and sight to poor and kept everything else normal.  I walked outside in sneak mode and zombies from slightly off screen were seeing me and came running over.  I was like "wait did I put these zombies on eagle eye?".  So I restarted and reset and double checked all the settings and did it again, same thing.  I then put the zombies on eagle eye to see and I pulled even more zombies.  Are zombies supposed to be like this now or is something messed up with zombie settings?

Possibly a bug. Possibly a tweak to their sight that went a little far. We'll look into it :)

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I'd just like to point out that carpentry is very, very annoying with the new exhaustion system.

I've got a fully maxed out carpentry skill, I chop down two trees (which is 10 axe swings) and I'm instantly highly exerted. I pick up two or three logs and haul them across the street, saw them into planks, the exertion lingers and I start getting sleepy just from hauling the logs across the street and sawing them into planks?

 

I really don't like that. Nobody wakes up at 8 AM, chops down two trees, saws some planks and then is so tired 4 hours later that they are in danger of passing out because of exhaustion.

 

The way the current exhaustion system works makes carpentry and fortifying very, very annoying...

 

To end on a high note though, I appreciate the update and I have to say I really like the new zombie behaviour and the new shaders!

 

I would argue that the average person would be physically exhausted after chopping down just one tree. Not to mention two or three trees and sawing them into planks after dragging the logs that weigh realistically hundreds and hundreds of pounds acoss the street. All of this in 4 hours? Forget it if you want to talk about realism. Go into the woods and find a tree that has fallen over and try to drag it ANYWHERE. The average person couldn't even drag a single log across a street. They would have to saw the log on the spot and carry back smaller pieces like planks.

 

Have you ever chopped down a tree with an axe that was big enough to make planks out of? Or ever try to saw through one? By yourself? I have. It is not easy and it is extremely demanding physically.

 

For the sake of gameplay, I think that aspect of the exhaustiion system is reasonable.

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Again, there's a difference between fighting off sleepiness and being worn out. Your body can't instantly repair torn muscle (which happens when working hard for long periods of time) no matter what stimulants you pump it with.

Yep again tho we want to balance realism for gameplay. People don't ACTUALLY get sick if they are out in the rain too long, etc, and people don't ACTUALLY become a better shot by popping some beta-blockers, or ACTUALLY suddenly stop feeling sad because they popped some anti-depressants 2 minutes ago. There is a certain level of gamefication that's allowed for the sake of balancing a fun game, and I think energy drinks having a balanced and not OP effect on giving you that extra push if required is a nice thing for gameplay.

i think we walk the realism line quite well and are still leaps and bounds ahead of most other games in that regard, but we need to consider more traditional game design paradigms despite this philosophy. Mario style powerups it maybe, but subtley enough and with enough kinda 'that makes sense'ness about them to justify it.

I don't think drinking an energy drink and slightly subduing your physical exhaustion is too far out the realms of logical realism to cause an issue in our game world, any more than sawing three perfect planks out of a log from a thin conifer tree trunk with a normal hand saw is :)

We need to provide logical buffs and debuffs to any stat we can to provide the RPG experience alongside the sim experience.

 

 

Lemmy what about a system like State of Decay?

You have your stamina bar, you run for a while, it gets down quickly and regenarates, but after a while of keep running and then stopping for the regeneration, the overall bar starts to get a new limit. so you reach a point where you can only run half of what you ran when you first started, and you need to rest, sleep to gain back your full stamina bar.

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I'd just like to point out that carpentry is very, very annoying with the new exhaustion system.

I've got a fully maxed out carpentry skill, I chop down two trees (which is 10 axe swings) and I'm instantly highly exerted. I pick up two or three logs and haul them across the street, saw them into planks, the exertion lingers and I start getting sleepy just from hauling the logs across the street and sawing them into planks?

 

I really don't like that. Nobody wakes up at 8 AM, chops down two trees, saws some planks and then is so tired 4 hours later that they are in danger of passing out because of exhaustion.

 

The way the current exhaustion system works makes carpentry and fortifying very, very annoying...

 

To end on a high note though, I appreciate the update and I have to say I really like the new zombie behaviour and the new shaders!

 

I would argue that the average person would be physically exhausted after chopping down just one tree. Not to mention two or three trees and sawing them into planks after dragging the logs that weigh realistically hundreds and hundreds of pounds acoss the street. All of this in 4 hours? Forget it if you want to talk about realism. Go into the woods and find a tree that has fallen over and try to drag it ANYWHERE. The average person couldn't even drag a single log across a street. They would have to saw the log on the spot and carry back smaller pieces like planks.

 

Have you ever chopped down a tree with an axe that was big enough to make planks out of? Or ever try to saw through one? By yourself? I have. It is not easy and it is extremely demanding physically.

 

For the sake of gameplay, I think that aspect of the exhaustiion system is reasonable.

 

Got to agree with ya man,I've chopped plenty of trees down with an axe in real life...and still do towards the winter time. The current Stamina System is Extremely reasonable. Ontop of that taking the tree you just chopped down now needs split to make logs...ahhh days like that makes me wanna go inside after i'm done and just relax. Extremely exhausting.  Thanks to the Devs for making another great update

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To the couple of people repeatedly proposing short term exertion systems:

They already tried it. It never worked. Balancing it was impossible and it added nothing to gameplay. You can propose systems all you want, but it's pointless as long as it's just a short term annoyance. That's all it ever was and all it really can be. There's no reason for it.

Actually play the new version for a bit before judging it. Give the devs some time to balance it. See how much more it adds to the game.

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Again, there's a difference between fighting off sleepiness and being worn out. Your body can't instantly repair torn muscle (which happens when working hard for long periods of time) no matter what stimulants you pump it with.

Yep again tho we want to balance realism for gameplay. People don't ACTUALLY get sick if they are out in the rain too long, etc, and people don't ACTUALLY become a better shot by popping some beta-blockers, or ACTUALLY suddenly stop feeling sad because they popped some anti-depressants 2 minutes ago. There is a certain level of gamefication that's allowed for the sake of balancing a fun game, and I think energy drinks having a balanced and not OP effect on giving you that extra push if required is a nice thing for gameplay.

i think we walk the realism line quite well and are still leaps and bounds ahead of most other games in that regard, but we need to consider more traditional game design paradigms despite this philosophy. Mario style powerups it maybe, but subtley enough and with enough kinda 'that makes sense'ness about them to justify it.

I don't think drinking an energy drink and slightly subduing your physical exhaustion is too far out the realms of logical realism to cause an issue in our game world, any more than sawing three perfect planks out of a log from a thin conifer tree trunk with a normal hand saw is :)

We need to provide logical buffs and debuffs to any stat we can to provide the RPG experience alongside the sim experience.

 

 

Lemmy what about a system like State of Decay?

You have your stamina bar, you run for a while, it gets down quickly and regenarates, but after a while of keep running and then stopping for the regeneration, the overall bar starts to get a new limit. so you reach a point where you can only run half of what you ran when you first started, and you need to rest, sleep to gain back your full stamina bar.

 

That's sort of exactly what I described. Except more simple resolutions.

*EDIT

Either I'm being misunderstood, or I'm not getting this out right. I'm not proposing you keep the same exact thing. As it stood before, you obviously couldn't take out eight zombies in one go. You would get tired a lot, between every other swing, and it was annoyin'. Killing several zombies before any of that starts happening, on the other hand is not entirely "short-term." Just like cutting down two trees would make you tired, I was saying killing ten zombies would, and without taking long breaks in between swings.

But I will wait to play it myself, and it's probably better than I'm thinking. I'll drop it.

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Except that little "horde attracting itself" weird movement thingy, I'm liking the new zombie AI so far ! They could use a little hearing radius enlargement on "normal" tho, a bit smaller than pinpoint but still larger than the actual standard. Maybe the noise created by melee weapons could have a smaller radius as tho, at least for blades : I realized on pinpoint settings how loud they were compared to other actions.

Edit :

Also some areas feel a little empty on the standard amount of zombies, I'm trying survival again to take a look at the changes since I was mainly playing Sandbox, and established somewhat of a camp pretty easily in Twiggy's, south of Muldraugh ; only saw 4~5 zombies in the area, even the gas station nearby was pretty quiet !

Edit 2 :

The "horde attracting itself" thingy might be more game breaking than I first thought : I raided Muldraugh's Police Station alone pretty easily, I ran to the building, broke a window to enter and then rushed the first door to have something to slow them down while speed looting, turned out they stopped banging on the door pretty quickly as they got more interested in each other, then meta-sounds happened, only a small portion of the zombies I could see outside (barelly) moved toward the meta-sounds. They just seemed more interested in each other.

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Edit 2 :

The "horde attracting itself" thingy might be more game breaking than I first thought : I raided Muldraugh's Police Station alone pretty easily, I ran to the building, broke a window to enter and then rushed the first door to have something to slow them down while speed looting, turned out they stopped banging on the door pretty quickly as they got more interested in each other, then meta-sounds happened, only a small portion of the zombies I could see outside (barelly) moved toward the meta-sounds. They just seemed more interested in each other.

I got to agree on that one, while i was playing Split-Screen, we were in the second floor building watching some zombies trying to get into the school, there was like a little group of zombies in a side, so zombies would go bang the window and then go back the group and then another zombie would go bang in the window again and the cycle reapets.

 

It was like they were talking:

"Hey guys did you see how i banged myself into that window? Pretty cool huh?"

"Dude that was cool, let me try"

 

But so far so good, having no problems so far with the new stamina system...

Other than my usal complains about not passing out when you are very tierd and i dont even want to think how the flying fuck i am going to be able to travel to the other town with this new system.

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I dislike the change to exertion. It just makes gameplay more sluggish; the much-lambasted 'fight, back off for a minute, resume' mechanic is now 'fight, back off to the nearest house, sit in a chair for an hour, resume'. Too much added tedium for little real added challenge. It also makes traveling across the vast map even more irritating - before this patch it was possible to travel between Muldraugh and West Point in a day at a constant sprint, now it's impossible to make the trip in under two days. (And if we must talk realism, West Point is less than six miles up the road from Muldraugh, which wouldn't take more than a couple of hours to walk.)

 

There's no point in having two different moodles to represent the effects of long term exhaustion, either. If you don't want short term exhaustion being represented in the game anymore, then just remove exertion entirely and combine its effects into the tiredness moodle.

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I dislike the change to exertion. It just makes gameplay more sluggish; the much-lambasted 'fight, back off for a minute, resume' mechanic is now 'fight, back off to the nearest house, sit in a chair for an hour, resume'. Too much added tedium for little real added challenge. It also makes traveling across the vast map even more irritating - before this patch it was possible to travel between Muldraugh and West Point in a day at a constant sprint, now it's impossible to make the trip in under two days. (And if we must talk realism, West Point is less than six miles up the road from Muldraugh, which wouldn't take more than a couple of hours to walk.)

 

There's no point in having two different moodles to represent the effects of long term exhaustion, either. If you don't want short term exhaustion being represented in the game anymore, then just remove exertion entirely and combine its effects into the tiredness moodle.

Agreed. Exertion shouldn't be a system you can easily circumvent by backing off for a couple of seconds, but making it a day long based system seems like a bit too much. I miraculously found about 20 minutes to play today and from what I've seen so far I'm not really liking this system either. It needs to be longer term than an hour or two, and it needs more gradation, but it shouldn't be a redundancy to tiredness.

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But it's how it works irl, well, to me...

 

For the average joe: You can't run for too long and need to rest a for 5-10min, but then you can run again, but building more and more exertion, same for fighting, i now do some workout and i can really understand that: you do that for 1h, you then need 1-2h to fully recover, that's why now you need to have some plan and not just "ima rush the warehouse day 1", it could be a long trip, and you don't want long trip in a zombie apocalypse :)

 

Well, my 2 cents anyway

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But it's how it works irl, well, to me...

 

For the average joe: You can't run for too long and need to rest a for 5-10min, but then you can run again, but building more and more exertion, same for fighting, i now do some workout and i can really understand that: you do that for 1h, you then need 1-2h to fully recover, that's why now you need to have some plan and not just "ima rush the warehouse day 1", it could be a long trip, and you don't want long trip in a zombie apocalypse :)

 

Well, my 2 cents anyway

 

Exertion is fine as it is now. The option of being able to rest is enough to deal with it. I haven't had a chance to check, but I assume the tent will let you rest now? That will finally give it some use in multiplayer and make it that much more valuable in single player.

 

Liking the new additions so far. I still think you can basically win the game though with rooftop farming, especially with level 5 cooking :/

 

Edit: The new exertion is great btw, first time I've almost died in awhile because of it finally popping up in the middle of a long drawn out fight with about 8 zombies.

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But it's how it works irl, well, to me...

For the average joe: You can't run for too long and need to rest a for 5-10min, but then you can run again, but building more and more exertion, same for fighting, i now do some workout and i can really understand that: you do that for 1h, you then need 1-2h to fully recover, that's why now you need to have some plan and not just "ima rush the warehouse day 1", it could be a long trip, and you don't want long trip in a zombie apocalypse :)

Well, my 2 cents anyway

Thats why imo State of Decay "stamina system" is cool. You need to plan small fights and not to take too many zeds at once. The old PZ system was close to good in symulating that. But then in SoD when you take more and more fights during the day your maximum stamina level decrese and after some time you have truble taking single zombie (you have stamina for few swings that wont kill zed). New PZ system is dooing that atm.

The only concern i have is that when youre rested you have few hours of "super human mode" you can fight with a horde of zeds, run for hours till you get tired.

I agree with what lemmy said that fighting 1 min break and fight again is not most fun mechanic but when you combin it with new system it will force you to plan your day both long and short term.

And separte skill to lvl up and boost your stamina would add a lot to the game.

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Hi,

 

hi Folks!

Travellin' around to make my personnal report on 30.7..

 

Danger feels a lot more around the place since the new behaving of our Dear Z's, i found myself surrounded very quickly and got saved only by my reflexes..That is a feeling i didn't have in PZ since some time now; I LOVE IT!! :P  

 

i also enjoy the new lighting a lot, makes it feel more realistic, Darker and more desperate;Still i find the idea of being able to chose filters also brilliant; everyone will be able to custom his own game and so enjoy his experience much more.

 

As nobody did it, i'm also reporting my experience with the actual work on integration of the gamepad controller. Key mapping appears brilliant and very intuitive to me .The brand new autozoom certainly needs some more tweaking to be more reactive (sometimes it take more time to zoom/dezoom when goin to "streetfight" but the concept of it is really a huge add to the comfort of gameplay...

 

Keep up the good work, PZ is on his way to the top !! (tophat)

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Alright. Played 30.7 for several hours, two months into the game, and I can't deal with the exertion change anymore. It doesn't make the game challenging and certainly doesn't make it fun. Making the player retreat after every ten minutes of gameplay to spend four minutes "resting" is a really bad design choice. Please, please consider altering this, or making the game mechanic optional (if it isn't already).

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Gotta say I love the new exertion and medical systems. Exertion is excellent, You can have much more desperate fights now with more zombies, whilst retaining the feel that it is only a matter of time. Top notch.

 

Medical system rules too. Broke my foot on day 1, been surviving just barely for ten days with the injury, seems to be getting better at least. The danger is real and I gotta say I am loving it so much.

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hey guys,

 

back after a few months hiatus from PZ and missed some updates it seems.

 

back on 30 IWBUMS and have to say:

love it

didnt know trapping,m cooking and all that stuff and its great,

 

now to the most recent update:

 

i tested the new "zorde attraction" stuff and it seems to me that the Zeds notice a hell of a lot more than before. 

i tested normal settings and after spawn a zed walked straight to me, even though it was on the other end of the screen, (zoom max out on 1920X1080)

and I didnt do anything yet at all. it noticed me instantly. 

 

So I tested it with a new sandbox map, all zeds abilities on minimum. 

they still notice me when I am in even remote vicinity. 

 

with my last save before the recent update I could sneak past zombies, provided there were trees and such in line of sight. 

in the new update they notice no matter what is in between. 

 

I think it needs to be looked at

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Gameplay shouldn't ever take a back seat to realism, however. This change just makes the game plod more.

This is the opposite of what should happen. the change was intended to speed up gameplay and working as intended would. Please see other thread as it sounds like a bug or balance issue:

http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/11789-exhaustion-feedback/

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Played 30.7 last night, and found a group of 8 or so zombies. I figured I'd kite them off one at a time and frying-pan them. I pull one away, but a second one follows. Then two more follow. Then more... then all of them.

 

I survived one day, and am loving the herd changes. :)

 

The colour filter I could take or leave.

 

I haven't tested the controller yet, but I will tonight!

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