RELEASED: Build 30.12
19 19

1123 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

But the old system was entirely fucked up. You could swing a golf club, miss, and be crippled in-game for a long period of time, all because it didn't model exhaustion properly, while other weapons would hardly trigger it at all (and again, the system could be gamed hilariously easy by simply shuffling back while sneaking).

There was also no penalty for just whacking hordes to death for a full day. This actively penalizes you for dong so.

If you want to advocate the previous system was better because it, in theory, modeled being winded well, then sure: 'll have to agree, but there's no valid excuse to go back to something that was inherently broken, or pretending it worked well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are we playing the same game? I swung plenty of golf clubs prior to 30.7 and never got crippled in-game from a miss. In fact I don't remember seeing the excessive exertion moodle once, nor ever being rendered incapable of running previously. I completely disagree that the old system was 'inherently broken', as well. There are dozens of changes that could have been made to reduce the rate of passive exertion recovery shy of disabling it entirely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, if you're taking a ton of favorable traits, you're going to get favorable results. :-|

Guess those better be nerfed. :-D

 

or perhaps the negative ones buffed.

 

All the npc ones are free points

light drinker is a no brainer for free points

Hard of hearing means little to me since I don't need to hear a window thats being broken way down the street compared to one nearby me.

clumsy was another easy filler one

Hearty appetite has no meaning when theres almost no need to manage your food supply (Need a working winter that would disable "most" renewable food sources except for maybe more difficult fish to catch).

 

Right now its too easy to get free points, if you want to make the game challenging........

 

Remove the NPC ones until they are added into the game

Remove light drinker, serves zero purpose except free points

 

Others, I dunno. Unless Hard of hearing changes into deafness it has little impact on the game. Clumsy has never made much of a difference to me (just an easy way to nab resilience) and hearty appetite is another easy one until they re-balance food management.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Hearty appetite has no meaning when theres almost no need to manage your food supply (Need a working winter that would disable "most" renewable food sources except for maybe more difficult fish to catch).

Others, I dunno. Unless Hard of hearing changes into deafness it has little impact on the game. Clumsy has never made much of a difference to me (just an easy way to nab resilience) and hearty appetite is another easy one until they re-balance food management.

 

Hearty appetite needs to be combined with 'Extremly rare loot' options

 

The issue isnt that Hearty appetite is pointless, the issue is that even on 'rare' food is extremly abundant.

 

I always take these two options now.   I would also take a 'hearty eater' version for water if it was available.

 

But I'm sure the whole trait/proffesion system will be revamped at some point since its never changed.

 

Here is a list of new traits that I came up with :) - http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/11640-moar-traits/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Making the player retreat after every ten minutes of gameplay to spend four minutes "resting" is a really bad design choice.

Hmm, thats odd,  I'm not sure what your doing to need to rest so frequently.   If your fighting a lot of zombies then maybe you've continued from a previous save where the only thing left to do is kill zombies and you have already established a base and a large stock pile. etc.  

 

I find that fighting zombies in general is something to be avoided at least until the very late-game when I have established base, loot and skills.

 

Did you start a new game or did you continue from an existing game?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New game. I always start new games when new builds are released unless it's just a hotfix for the previous build. My problem was and is getting into too much combat. I don't fight very much, but the new build discourages fighting much more than I'm used to and makes any fight with a large group a very drawn-out affair requiring multiple rests to get through. I still feel making people devote time to recovering exertion rather than just letting it occur naturally at a slower pace than before causes too much sluggishness in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My game worked fine yesterday, but now, all of my traits (even the profession one, it still says I'm a park ranger) have disappeared, together with their advantages/disadvantages. Also, when my character got bit, she died instantly. That's not normal right? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New game. I always start new games when new builds are released unless it's just a hotfix for the previous build. My problem was and is getting into too much combat. I don't fight very much, but the new build discourages fighting much more than I'm used to and makes any fight with a large group a very drawn-out affair requiring multiple rests to get through. I still feel making people devote time to recovering exertion rather than just letting it occur naturally at a slower pace than before causes too much sluggishness in the game.

How large groups are you referring to? As I understand it, one of the goals of all of this is to make the player taking on groups larger than 20 or so infeasible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New game. I always start new games when new builds are released unless it's just a hotfix for the previous build. My problem was and is getting into too much combat. I don't fight very much, but the new build discourages fighting much more than I'm used to and makes any fight with a large group a very drawn-out affair requiring multiple rests to get through. I still feel making people devote time to recovering exertion rather than just letting it occur naturally at a slower pace than before causes too much sluggishness in the game.

But you shouldn't be fighting large groups, that's the thing. No changes to the system are going to accommodate that, as previously said.

 

 

My game worked fine yesterday, but now, all of my traits (even the profession one, it still says I'm a park ranger) have disappeared, together with their advantages/disadvantages. Also, when my character got bit, she died instantly. That's not normal right? 

No, not normal at all. :D

When trying to create a new game, does the same thing happen? If so, you may want to try manually deleting the game files in the installation directory: %ProgramFiles(x86)%\Steam\SteamApps\Common\ProjectZomboid

Sometimes Steam just has trouble updating a few files.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

New game. I always start new games when new builds are released unless it's just a hotfix for the previous build. My problem was and is getting into too much combat. I don't fight very much, but the new build discourages fighting much more than I'm used to and makes any fight with a large group a very drawn-out affair requiring multiple rests to get through. I still feel making people devote time to recovering exertion rather than just letting it occur naturally at a slower pace than before causes too much sluggishness in the game.

How large groups are you referring to? As I understand it, one of the goals of all of this is to make the player taking on groups larger than 20 or so infeasible.

 

 

The largest group I've fought in my current game was about 10-12 strong.

 

 

New game. I always start new games when new builds are released unless it's just a hotfix for the previous build. My problem was and is getting into too much combat. I don't fight very much, but the new build discourages fighting much more than I'm used to and makes any fight with a large group a very drawn-out affair requiring multiple rests to get through. I still feel making people devote time to recovering exertion rather than just letting it occur naturally at a slower pace than before causes too much sluggishness in the game.

But you shouldn't be fighting large groups, that's the thing. No changes to the system are going to accommodate that, as previously said.

 

 

That's fine, but they should make it so that large groups of zombies can actually threaten you, rather than just making your character have to stop and lie down every time they do anything strenuous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's fine, but they should make it so that large groups of zombies can actually threaten you, rather than just making your character have to stop and lie down every time they do anything strenuous.

 

Misrepresenting the situation . . . you can certainly fight through the exhaustion moodles (to a point), as you've admitted.

If you choose to go rest, that's your choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have survived for 5 in-game days in 30.8, and I have to say: great update! I like how it requires more strategic thinking now. I'm constantly on alert mode when I loot.

 

Last night I decided to take down a group of about 5-7 zombies who stood outside a house I wanted to loot. I did it without getting exhausted, but I had to move a block as I hacked them down, and when the last was dispatched I heard a moan from behind. 10 to 15 conveyed on me from two directions. I knocked down two of them and ran. NOW I got severely exhausted. I was very nearly killed several times the next fifteen minutes (real time), but did manage to escape to my safe house without being followed the last bit. Problem is i've now got a horde one block from the safe house.

 

The new exhaustion model makes the game scarier and more fun, for me at least. I know that I can take out one group of zombies (if I don't fuck it up), but if I stumble into another (as is very likely) I soon get weakened. Hunter becomes prey.

 

It's great fun push-your-luck resource management, and it will surely marry really well with the coming update to the sneaking system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm baffled by your response. What am I misrepresenting? You inferred that the goal of this change was to stop people from fighting large groups. I said it doesn't accomplish that, it merely forces characters to sit down and rest constantly if they exert themselves. There are better ways to increase the actual challenge of fighting zombies to a point where taking on hordes in melee is undoable without adding more mandatory downtime to the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, Florin. There are many things that can be done to make hordes more challenging.

This is just one of those things; replacing something that was error-prone and annoying with something else that, as I can tell, annoys you just as much as the old system annoyed me.

I get it, you don't like it, but it isn't going to go away. A few tweaks are going to be made, but I don't think they'll give you what you want from it. :-(

Sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If they want to ignore my feedback then that's their prerogative. There is no reason for why they can't make exertion tweakable in sandbox so that everyone can get what they want, but you appear to be on a crusade against the old exertion system for reasons I'm still unsure of.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jar are quite rare in home, need to see if it's not getting too easy with that...

 

But you can find much more on a house ware store, there's one in the mall :)

 

I'm gonna say that quite rare isn't even a term for them, that their basically non-existent in homes.

 

Went to try the new canning system, set sandbox to no zombies, all loot to abundant, and took the lucky trait. I searched DOZENS of homes and I didn't find any at all. Sugar was findable, and the only vinegar bottles I found at all were at 2 Spiffo restaurants. Jars were no where to be found.

 

If in fact they can only be found in the mall, this is gonna be a problem, ESPECIALLY for multiplayer since these will be very useful once food is more balanced out. I doubt the first thing most people thought of when fleeing their home was "Get the canning supplies!!!!!!". They defiantly need to spawn in more spots, as they will be almost as vital as garbage bags are now eventually.

 

I understand that they should be rare finds in the city, but could you perhaps assign them as loot in the rural farm areas? People who grow crops are very likely to can their own food as well, so you should expect to find canning supplies there. Most department stores would have them as well. The mall shouldn't be the only significant source of these, the rural farms would make a lot of sense and allow alternate loot locations.

 

I know that food is gonna be rebalanced, but I also think there should be a renewable form of canning as well with pressure cookers for more advanced cooks to replace the current rotten food preserves we currently have in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jars ought to be common enough in most households. I've found one jar in total, and I think it was in the lawyer's office in Muldraugh of all places. No vinegar. I love the idea of creating preserves, I've been excited about this since I spotted the jars in the art assets. I hope there will be a way of doing it sustainably.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the Z are now, in the testing of 30.8, the best they have ever been. However, I also think the new exertion system is... not cool. It makes the game less fun, as I couldn't even run a tenth of what I normally do, with multiple points in the physical skills. Runs from the west farm to either Muldraugh or West Point have become almost impossible. Running, slaying, building and other physical activities just aren't as fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Florin your complaint is now and has been for three pages nothing but "But I want to kill hordes all day!"

If you're not horde killing all day, you won't have trouble with exertion. Simple as that. Either you're lying about how you're playing, lying about how the game reacts to your play, or there's a bug.

Can you quickly delete the game, then the save folder (C:/users/yourusername/Zomboid) and try playing again?

Because what you're saying just isn't true. I'll up a a video later if I think of it to prove it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My complaint is not that I can't kill hordes all day or anything of the sort, which you would know if you'd bothered to read more than the first few words of any one of my posts, and I am certainly not lying about anything. Upload whatever you want, I'm not interested in further discussion with you. I've repeated myself enough and I've no desire to bicker with overbearing moderators who've forgotten how to be civil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess I haven't played the game in the same way as Merrin and maybe Florin before. I had a safe house in the North farm a couple of builds ago but never ran the whole way. I mostly walk and sneak, with occasional sprints.

 

I did allot of running in a local multiplayer game a month back and got Sprinting to level 3 if I remember correctly (could have been 2). Thing is, the game didn't feel as immersive when I could run for all eternity. No challenge, and the map felt smaller. Before this I had looked at the trip between Muldraugh and West point as a great trek that should be planned in great detail with at least one sleep over to be safe: it was nowhere near that.

 

I haven't played 30.8 that long yet, but don't you guys feel the tension building when you're character is exhausted and a long way from your safe house? I mean, the new system will probably be tweaked several times in the next weeks or months, but I think the basic idea is the right one.

 

What do you guys think was thrilling or good about the previous 10 second stop-watch exhaustion system? I really want to know; maybe I missed or just where ignorant of the positive side of that system. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't played 30.8 that long yet, but don't you guys feel the tension building when you're character is exhausted and a long way from your safe house? I mean, the new system will probably be tweaked several times in the next weeks or months, but I think the basic idea is the right one.

 

What do you guys think was thrilling or good about the previous 10 second stop-watch exhaustion system? I really want to know; maybe I missed or just where ignorant of the positive side of that system.

No tension. I don't need to be anywhere near my safe house. Any nearby house is sufficient for resting. I know that if the exertion moodle appears I can walk into the nearest house, pick the least exposed corner and rest. If zombies are following me and I'm too exerted to kill them I can get them stuck on a building or fence. They can't catch up to me even at walking pace. This leaves a system that fails to make zombies more threatening whilst also creating more intermittent downtime for your character whenever you're performing physical activity. As I've said several times, I don't think putting a lot of downtime in a game is good for it.

As I've also explained, the previous system allowed players to recover from exertion too quickly and needed tweaking, but it didn't require intensive resting to overcome and did a better job of modelling short term fatigue than the new system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
19 19