psykikk Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 i feel stupid. all the rant about exertion and my main problem seems to bother no one except me ?? am I the only one having to duck away from superperceiving super mutant-zombie killers ? false_chicken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florin Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 No. Several people have complained about clairvoyant zombies. I haven't seen it myself. Or I just walk around too much to notice. Zombies are slow and stupid, not difficult to either escape or lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isakron Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 As I've also explained, the previous system allowed players to recover from exertion too quickly and needed tweaking, but it didn't require intensive resting to overcome and did a better job of modelling short term fatigue than the new system. Cool, thanks! I'm very sorry, I missed that post. It's a fast moving thread! I've got the impression that zombies will be beefed up and tweaked more. This update is only the first step in that direction. It should be less safe to stay inside without barricaded windows and doors, and maybe sometimes the zombies loses track of you too easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrPleGoo Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I haven't played 30.8 that long yet, but don't you guys feel the tension building when you're character is exhausted and a long way from your safe house? I mean, the new system will probably be tweaked several times in the next weeks or months, but I think the basic idea is the right one. What do you guys think was thrilling or good about the previous 10 second stop-watch exhaustion system? I really want to know; maybe I missed or just where ignorant of the positive side of that system.No tension. I don't need to be anywhere near my safe house. Any nearby house is sufficient for resting. I know that if the exertion moodle appears I can walk into the nearest house, pick the least exposed corner and rest. If zombies are following me and I'm too exerted to kill them I can get them stuck on a building or fence. They can't catch up to me even at walking pace. This leaves a system that fails to make zombies more threatening whilst also creating more intermittent downtime for your character whenever you're performing physical activity. As I've said several times, I don't think putting a lot of downtime in a game is good for it.As I've also explained, the previous system allowed players to recover from exertion too quickly and needed tweaking, but it didn't require intensive resting to overcome and did a better job of modelling short term fatigue than the new system. The main issue I have with the new exhaustion system is similar to Florin's. As you stockpile your safe house the distance you need to travel from home to "the front" increases. Walking that increasing distance is just boring and stopping every fifth house you see to pull up a chair so you can sprint the distance isn't better, more challenging or fun.Then once you do hit the front line you run into the same issues while looting. Zombies guard loot because area's you haven't visited still have loot and zombies, so you have to do combat in order to loot. Stopping after every small pack, which are with the new clumping mechanic definitely more challenging, is not fun or challenging. The old "pull back for 10 seconds to wait for exertion" system wasn't good either. You could spend all day every day clearing zombies and snatching up loot. But now even getting to the point in gameplay where I kill zombies and loot stuff is tedious and the combat itself is easier as long as you take it in small bursts with downtime in between. It reminds me of having to drink water back when I played WoW vs timing your spell casts to get some spirit regen. I understand this is all experimental due to the nature of the IWBUMS branch and I still love the game. This is just my two cents on the three page discussion. Keep up the good work devs! false_chicken, Jack Bower and Florin 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasKo Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Florin your complaint is now and has been for three pages nothing but "But I want to kill hordes all day!"To me, it reads as if his complaint is that the new system forces you to sit down to relax instead of just recovering slowly; i.e. activities having a longer effect on you. Would mirror my own experience, dragging the gameplay down and just not appearing fun to me. That's without trying to kill "hordes", just a few stragglers both with a leveled up character (which you can't argue should happen) and with a fresh start. false_chicken, Siorus, Florin and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suomiboi Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) i feel stupid. all the rant about exertion and my main problem seems to bother no one except me ?? am I the only one having to duck away from superperceiving super mutant-zombie killers ? The zombies perception, hearing and memory has been upped with quite a degree. To a more realistic amount in my opinion. You can see to the edge of the streamed area if it's in your line of sight so why shouldn't a zombie (and they actually don't it's just farther than it used to). Also steps outdoors are very easily heard if there are no other noices around. The point of this is to make you walk when you used to run and sneak when you used to walk (this is how it used to be in around build 008). Running is for emergencies or covering ground. The upcoming sneak overhaul will make this part more fluent I'd imagine. Edited December 10, 2014 by Suomiboi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florin Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 As I've also explained, the previous system allowed players to recover from exertion too quickly and needed tweaking, but it didn't require intensive resting to overcome and did a better job of modelling short term fatigue than the new system. Cool, thanks! I'm very sorry, I missed that post. It's a fast moving thread! I've got the impression that zombies will be beefed up and tweaked more. This update is only the first step in that direction. It should be less safe to stay inside without barricaded windows and doors, and maybe sometimes the zombies loses track of you too easy.That's fine. I have no problem with added challenge, my problem is with added tedium. Zombies should be more dangerous, but characters shouldn't be made to sit around doing sweet eff all for an hour every time they swing an axe a couple dozen times, or run a few hundred yards, or sow a row of cabbages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaGrey Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Florin your complaint is now and has been for three pages nothing but "But I want to kill hordes all day!"To me, it reads as if his complaint is that the new system forces you to sit down to relax instead of just recovering slowly; i.e. activities having a longer effect on you. Would mirror my own experience, dragging the gameplay down and just not appearing fun to me. That's without trying to kill "hordes", just a few stragglers both with a leveled up character (which you can't argue should happen) and with a fresh start.Which is fine, and mirrors my own thoughts on it, but I don't think having to stop doing something physically demanding for a little while and having to do something else shouldn't be a thing. It's only the necessity of either standing still to charge or using the rest system that impacts my view of it. Rathlord and Geonjaha 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertJohnson Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 We're trying to make zombies dangerous, by making them moving in group etc. Wait 30.8, I've done some tweaks, it should help. Please understand we're not changing endurance just to make game harder, previous endurance system was totally wrong, it's rather accurate now, but yeah, I know, this isn't like CoD and other likely game where you have only a small endurance bar which replenish fast at any time. PrPleGoo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasKo Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Please understand we're not changing endurance just to make game harder, previous endurance system was totally wrong, it's rather accurate now, but yeah, I know, this isn't like CoD and other likely game where you have only a small endurance bar which replenish fast at any time.I think people understand that really well and it doesn't need to be played down like that (essentially saying "WELL THIS ISN'T COD"). From my limited experience with it, it's everyting else...but not accurate. More accurate than before? Maybe. But not fun at all. Florin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaGrey Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Please understand we're not changing endurance just to make game harder, previous endurance system was totally wrong, it's rather accurate now, but yeah, I know, this isn't like CoD and other likely game where you have only a small endurance bar which replenish fast at any time.I think people understand that really well and it doesn't need to be played down like that (essentially saying "WELL THIS ISN'T COD").Yes. This is clearly Diablo 2. Spensume, nasKo and PrPleGoo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakello Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I feel like a 'small' bar is actually more accurate than the current system, you can always catch a breath without proper resting. It should however be supplemented by a 'large' bar that influences how quickly the small one regenerates. The large bar can be refilled by resting/sleeping. Also it would be nice if you could actually do stuff while resting, like reading a book. CaptKaspar, Geonjaha, mieksta and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psykikk Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 i like the bar idea for exhastion. also a bar for sound (or an icon) would be cool, like in thief or something. also, I never run anyways. so it is not that I am surprised like "why do they notice me running around making as much noise as possible"rather than "why do they see / notice me even though I am covered and slowly walking " clairvoyance... hm. sounds about right and exactly what I encounter. when they still can see to the edge of the streamed map (with lowest perception levels selected,does that mean a zed qwith highest perception settings will walk from westpoint to muldraugh because he has cuaght a noise or a whiff of me ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suomiboi Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 when they still can see to the edge of the streamed map (with lowest perception levels selected, If something like this is happening, it's most obviously a bug. Also exaggeration does not help your cause... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nettybee Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this or not. So, if it isn't, please feel free to redirect me. I'm playing this current build, 30.8, and I opened some seed packets to start up my farming. But, when I opened the packets, the seeds completely disappeared. I checked all the bags I have and the ground around me, but it doesn't seem like I got anything from the packets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florin Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Yes, that's happening. Campfire kits also turn into nothing when you try to use them, apparently. There are probably other usable items broken in the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophonical Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this or not. So, if it isn't, please feel free to redirect me. I'm playing this current build, 30.8, and I opened some seed packets to start up my farming. But, when I opened the packets, the seeds completely disappeared. I checked all the bags I have and the ground around me, but it doesn't seem like I got anything from the packets.Happened to me too...I think it's a new bug introduced with the latest build. It's very unfortunate too because I was really looking forward to trying out the new canning system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaGrey Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Fixes are already committed. Please check the bug tracker, guys. Haven't noticed anything weird about zombies seeing from an unusually far distance. Generally it just seems to appear this way if you're not zoomed out very far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertJohnson Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 Update, build 30.9:Added Jar Lid to do Canned FoodAdded Broccoli and Cabbage for canned food (Jam will come in some days)Added an Endurance Regenration sandbox optionIncreased a tad the endurance regen when immobileHopefully fixed "dancing" zombiesAdded experimental zombies behavior: when a zombie inside a group spot you, he may also attract other zombies to youEndurance regen when walking (really small, 1/3 of the immobile endurance regen)"Walk To" now take the exhaust moodle and fatigue in speed calculFixed Language spellingFixed bug in farming/campfire recipesFixed some spelling in recipesRemoved a non-used item (hunting rifle clip)Fixed Log Stacks recipe bugScavenging for food during winter will be impossible, or really hard in cold monthsPlants now loose health during cold temperatureEmpty jar/Jar lid now spawn in grocery storeReduced the spawn rate of foods in fridgeZombies won't group in forest (well, much less than previous) ditoseadio, Geras, LeoIvanov and 11 others 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasKo Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Update, build 30.9:Added Jar Lid to do Canned FoodAdded Broccoli and Cabbage for canned food (Jam will come in some days)Added an Endurance Regenration sandbox optionIncreased a tad the endurance regen when immobileHopefully fixed "dancing" zombiesAdded experimental zombies behavior: when a zombie inside a group spot you, he may also attract other zombies to youEndurance regen when walking (really small, 1/3 of the immobile endurance regen)"Walk To" now take the exhaust moodle and fatigue in speed calculFixed Language spellingFixed bug in farming/campfire recipesFixed some spelling in recipesRemoved a non-used item (hunting rifle clip)Fixed Log Stacks recipe bugScavenging for food during winter will be impossible, or really hard in cold monthsPlants now loose health during cold temperatureEmpty jar/Jar lid now spawn in grocery storeReduced the spawn rate of foods in fridgeZombies won't group in forest (well, much less than previous)You're getting me excited, you sexy devil false_chicken and Charlessx 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florin Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suomiboi Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Offtopic Yay, the Jam is coming! Albie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siorus Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I don't post much, but I just wanted to stop in and say thank you to the devs. This build has been incredible and I am having a ton of fun with it! nasKo and Suomiboi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madigari Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Scavenging for food during winter will be impossible, or really hard in cold months When you say scavenging, which of the methods (foraging, trapping, fishing) are affected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaGrey Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Scavenging for food during winter will be impossible, or really hard in cold months When you say scavenging, which of the methods (foraging, trapping, fishing) are affected?Foraging. Madigari 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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