RELEASED: Build 30.12

[PrPleGoo]

 

RJ, shouldn't people have to disinfect wounds? You don't put a clean bandage over a dirty wound. In real life cleaning the wound is far more important than cleaning the bandage.

 

I think I miss explained it: you can be infected directly by a wound, let's say you cut yourself on a window, get infected, so yes, it's good to disinfect before doing anything, to prevent just in case.

But then also, during the healing, if you put a bandage it's better to disinfect the bandage, to be sure you don't caught an infection during the process.

But you have way more chance to get infected if you don't put any bandage on the wound, disinfect bandage is again, a matter of prevent, you could still not do it and deal with infection if it appear, you'll just have a longer healing time and more pain, depend on how the wound is critical..

 

Painkiller was bugged, I just fixed it

 

Does the infection chance start once your bandage gets dirty or does it only increase? Do disinfected bandages take longer to become dirty?

[RobertJohnson]

You have a really small chance of infection even with a clean bandage (really small, calm down Rath), but way more if it gets dirty (that's the main problem of dirty bandage ), and nope, disinfected bandage get dirty the same speed as normal one

[ChatNoir]

 

Painkiller was bugged, I just fixed it

 

 

Thanks a lot!

[Painkins]

You have a really small chance of infection even with a clean bandage (really small, calm down Rath), but way more if it gets dirty (that's the main problem of dirty bandage ), and nope, disinfected bandage get dirty the same speed as normal one

 

How about clean,dirty and very dirty...... because we dont always look in the health window.

[Lazarae]

Good to hear a higher medical skill lets you know when a wound's done healing- I've only got 2 in it so I'm not quite there yet. (Time to go smash more windows!) I am linefacing about disinfecting though. I'd much rather mess up because I missed a cue than because I lost track, especially when there's a lot to be disinfecting and you have twitchy hands (a few times I've meant to clean one arm but clicked the other, for instance, but then bandaged the arm I meant to and re-disinfected before bandaging the one I didn't, so one didn't get cleaned and the other got cleaned twice). I don't mind the option not being removed so you can still double-clean, but something that lasts even a few seconds is better than staring at the menu going "wait which one did I just do?" If you're giving first aid you know if you just cleaned someone's right or left arm, or their knee even if you barely know what you're doing- but if you get distracted or interrupted then you might forget. But I get why it is the way it is. (I'm more annoyed that my hands keep making me waste disinfectant. Perils of the apocalypse I suppose.)

 

I was also surprised cleaning bandages only took water. I figured it would at least take soap. It would make keeping clean bandages on hand harder; you'd have to stock up on soap as well.

 

Also I don't think I've gotten an infection yet, but it would be cool to see a particularly bad one sharing some traits with illness (the one from bad food or zombification, not a cold). I haven't been hindered much by pain even in agony, but the despair of running out of clean supplies and getting an infected wound, not knowing if your deteriorating health is because of the wound or if you've got the zombie. People arguing over whether or not to keep treating someone who's sick because it might be just an infection or they might be about to turn. You'd really need an experienced medic who can tell if a wound's infected or not to tell the difference, or in SP you'd need to build your skill so you'll know if it's survivable or if you should abandon all hope.

 

If you can't tell, I love the new system. I was nerding out about it to my dad, about how I actually have to worry now when I'm injured. Before if I got scratched all I really had to was slap a ripped sheet on it and hope I didn't get the zombie. And I have to think when looting now; if none of the windows work I have to weigh the noise made from breaking the door against the potential injury of shattering a window. Looting garages (the type with only windows accessible) I have to think about the risk vs reward. Really adds more dimension. And despair! Nothing like getting glass shards stuck in when you don't have your kit and you have to run home, trailing blood and losing health. Or ducking into a bathroom in a house full of zombies to treat something only to discover it doesn't have a cabinet and thus, no supplies.

 

(The erosion system is nice too, of course. I actually had to stop and stare when I first went out into the woods- it's the first time I've ever considered a zombie game honestly pretty (and not in an 'excellently done graphics' way but more the brief awe of a good view) but all the reds and oranges and yellows of the trees... it's such an excellent contrast to the horrors of the city and its cracked roads and bloodstains. There is beauty, even here.)

[Rathlord]

You have a really small chance of infection even with a clean bandage (really small, calm down Rath), but way more if it gets dirty (that's the main problem of dirty bandage ), and nope, disinfected bandage get dirty the same speed as normal one

 

I'm definitely okay with this. It's hard to keep wounds from getting infected even when they're taken care of by doctors sometimes.

[deprav]

 

Yup that's it, you use disinfectant on the wound directly if you're already infected, to fight this infection.

That's the only thing that bothers me about the medical overhaul ! This aspect is medically very wrong, you're gonna teach people how to die in a painful way xD

If a wound gets infected, pouring alcohol on it would only kill the bacterias on the surface but won't completely heal the infection, then the infection spreads to your blood, and you die.

There are only two (well, three) ways to heal from an infection :

- antibiotics

- surgery, removing the infected tissues before it gets too bad (then you have a nice flesh hole)

- surgery, amputation.

But the safest way still remains both surgery & antibiotics after the surgery.

So yeah, We need antibiotics ! Regular joes without any medical skill could use antibiotics to fight infected wounds before it gets to be a blood infection, and doctors & other players with medical skills could have access to surgery (on others, and themselves?) to removes the infected tissues with the appropriate tools (something to cut the flesh, and pliers)

[Rathlord]

That's not entirely accurate deprav. Cleaning the outside of the wound regularly and just letting the body heal can fight infections a majority of the time without antibiotics or any invasive surgery.

Also the fact that antibiotics are controlled substances not available over the counter, which means they're likely to be locked up. Some need to be refrigerated.

Also, you can't just pop an antibiotic and have your infection get better. Different antibiotics work on different infections. If you just take a random antibiotic you're just risking your life and dealing with potentially debilitating side effects for no reason.

Antibiotics aren't the magical panacea people think they are.

[cloud104]

how do I escape a zombie hoard.

[deprav]

That's not entirely accurate deprav. Cleaning the outside of the wound regularly and just letting the body heal can fight infections a majority of the time without antibiotics or any invasive surgery.

Also the fact that antibiotics are controlled substances not available over the counter, which means they're likely to be locked up. Some need to be refrigerated.

Also, you can't just pop an antibiotic and have your infection get better. Different antibiotics work on different infections. If you just take a random antibiotic you're just risking your life and dealing with potentially debilitating side effects for no reason.

Antibiotics aren't the magical panacea people think they are.

Yep I know all this ! ^^ some people even are allergic to certain antibiotics.

But the thing is, it's likely to be the most efficient way to fight a serious infection, even if the best thing is to prevent the infection by taking care of your wounds asap and kill the bacterias before they spread.

Antibiotics have been a huge improvement in todays medicine and pushed back infection-related deaths quite a lot, it's one of the most current thing you can find in any medical place and would be a precious ressource in that kind of environment. Imo it would be pretty weird not to have any antibiotics to find in PZ' world !

Tho having all kinds of antibiotics in the game would just be "too specialized" and awful to implement, it could be nice to have like one "broadly efficient" antibiotics (like penicillins) easy to preserve, and even its corresponding allergic trait - since it's the most common allergy to antibiotics.

Most drugstore (here at least) don't keep their generic antibiotics locked-up, it's a logical ressource to rush/look for when things go down ! you could find a lot of them in any drug store & hospitals you find on your way.

 

[EnigmaGrey]

Yep, washing bandages in water (non-boiling water, at the very least) is going to pre-civil-war era tech, I reckon . . . Would rather just have the extra step of cleaning the bandage and the wound, rather than one or the other, for the sake of realism.

Nice thing about having two or three types of antibiotics in the game, though: modeling basic allergies to them. Even if they have the same effect, providing a trait or two that restricts their use could be a fun way to RP, as Dreprav indicates.

Damn, I've fallen into the trap of suggesting things, too!

[Moose65]

Some more feedback on the medical items...........

 

So, after finding my first....First Aid Kit, I've realized they have WAY too much carrying capacity. Here is a screenshot of the ridiculousness

 

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=350687554

 

I shouldn't be able to store all my medical supplies AND several bottles of wine along with some ice cream in the same medical container. I would suggest to go as far as lowering its carrying capacity to 2, but some minor adjustments would have to be made to some of the weights which seem off.

 

First example is alcohol wipes. These literally weigh the same as a WHOLE bottle of disinfectant, and have 3 or 4 uses if I recall. The weight should change on these from .3 to .1 or less, and be single use only. I'm not sure why you can use a single wipe to treat 4 wounds since their typically meant for 1.

 

Lowering the medkit to 2 carrying capacity would still allow for quite a bit of storage with the current weights (assuming alcohol wipes get adjusted). That would allow for 1 bottle of disinfectant, 2 suture needles, 4 band aids, 2 bandages, tweezers, 3 cotton balls, and 3 alcohol wipes, leaving .3 weight to spare for players to add a little more to it (the numbers i listed are what I assume is the default loot that spawns in a medkit, and assumes that alcohol wipes get changed).

 

Edit: After looking at the picture again and thinking about the wording, I realize that 1 Alcohol Wipes probably means several packets instead of 1 packet like I was thinking. Still, even if this is the case, I find the fact that they weigh as much as a single bottle of disinfectant a little bit absurd.

[Solokill72]

can someone tell me if there is a way to clean up the blood that killing zombies makes or disable blood altogether? I would also like to know why I hear gun shots in my game when I dont have a gun and npc's aren't in the game yet.

 

 

I need to know what tools I can cut down trees with (and where I can find axes)

 

1. No, not at this point.

 

2. You can find axes in warehouses and garages, or you can craft one with stone, tree branch and a sheet, by scavenging the forest.

[Madigari]

it could be nice to have like one "broadly efficient" antibiotics (like penicillins) easy to preserve, and even its corresponding allergic trait - since it's the most common allergy to antibiotics.

 

I used to love that pink, sugary Amoxicillin when I would get sick as a kid. But then it started giving me hives around the time the penicillin allergy kicked in.   So a penicillin allergy would be definitely more lifelike for me.

[ChatNoir]

If antibiotics are not available silver (e.g., jewlery, silverware, coins) can be used to treat infected wounds (http://www.worldwidewounds.com/2006/may/Maillard/Focus-On-Silver.html).

[Dan_hibiki]

Hey, about the COOP, can i play with a keyboard and a joypad? or 2 keyboards (wireless)

[EnigmaGrey]

If antibiotics are not available silver (e.g., jewlery, silverware, coins) can be used to treat infected wounds (http://www.worldwidewounds.com/2006/may/Maillard/Focus-On-Silver.html).

Pretty sure it has to be a specific grade of silver to have antibiotic properties.

And this seems to be specificly for silver-impregnated fabric dressings?

[Lazarae]

 

If antibiotics are not available silver (e.g., jewlery, silverware, coins) can be used to treat infected wounds (http://www.worldwidewounds.com/2006/may/Maillard/Focus-On-Silver.html).

Pretty sure it has to be a specific grade of silver to have antibiotic properties.

And this seems to be specificly for silver-impregnated fabric dressings?

 

Not to mention the risk of argyria (warning for the images) with repeated use which makes you strongly resemble a zombie and forces you to avoid the sun. And there's the fact it screws with other antibiotics over time, reducing absorption. Some people are allergic as well. Silver-impregnated fabric dressings might avoid some of these issues (they're approved by the FDA; colloidal silver is not) but if you're using it in the same capacity as penicillin then you're going with colloidal silver, which is largely quackery. (It does work as an antibiotic, but the risks- argyria and allergies mostly- outweigh its usefulness especially in the face of modern antibiotics, which is why it's fallen out of favor. Of course, there are crazies who claim it'll cure/prevent cancer and AIDS/HIV and a number of other things, but that's entirely unproven.)

 

I did research on colloidal silver just recently so it's kinda fresh in my head.

[Rathlord]

And then there's just the fact that you don't find silver fabrics anywhere at all anymore. Loose silver jewelry isn't going to do anything for your wounds, hate to break it to ya.

[ChatNoir]

 

If antibiotics are not available silver (e.g., jewlery, silverware, coins) can be used to treat infected wounds (http://www.worldwidewounds.com/2006/may/Maillard/Focus-On-Silver.html).

Pretty sure it has to be a specific grade of silver to have antibiotic properties.

And this seems to be specificly for silver-impregnated fabric dressings?

 

Sure if you can have silver nitrate, it is more usefull than just silver. But if you make a kind of powder of silver and add this to the bandage or wound dressing, it works as well. I wouldn't recommend it when you have antibiotics. However, if you have an infected wound in a zombie apocalypse and no antibiotics are available, I would give it a try. It might prevent you from getting a sepsis.

[Handlebar]

Let me preface this: I am a Nurse, like dress your wounds, give you shots, pass the meds type of Nurse.

 

My Experience with Silvadene http://www.rxlist.com/silvadene-drug.htm (Which everyone above is referring too) I've used it on burns. It is very good at debreading and removing dead tissue. We normally do not use it on healthy wounds, even as a preventive as it is far to harsh for healthy cells, and does more harm than good. When using it as burns it helps remove all the necrotic, unsalvageable tissue.

 

Laying a silver ring on a wound wouldn't have an effect even remotely close to the smallest amount of Silvadene.

[Hellgatsu]

I know this has already been asked before:
In my 4 months save It is very hard for me to find the new items (needed for medical treatments) and here someone said that they only spawn where i haven't already searched before. So i assume that when i'll reach to the Mall zone and surrounding i will find something useful right?I have some glass in the hand for a week now.

[Rathlord]

If antibiotics are not available silver (e.g., jewlery, silverware, coins) can be used to treat infected wounds (http://www.worldwidewounds.com/2006/may/Maillard/Focus-On-Silver.html).

Pretty sure it has to be a specific grade of silver to have antibiotic properties.

And this seems to be specificly for silver-impregnated fabric dressings?

Sure if you can have silver nitrate, it is more usefull than just silver. But if you make a kind of powder of silver and add this to the bandage or wound dressing, it works as well. I wouldn't recommend it when you have antibiotics. However, if you have an infected wound in a zombie apocalypse and no antibiotics are available, I would give it a try. It might prevent you from getting a sepsis.

This is incredibly dangerous- pretty much illustrates why you should never take medical advice from someone who's not a doctor.

Grinding up "silver" jewelry and putting it on a wound is not going to help. Please, don't ever do this.

[nasKo]

This is incredibly dangerous- pretty much illustrates why you should never take medical advice from someone who's not a doctor.

Grinding up "silver" jewelry and putting it on a wound is not going to help. Please, don't ever do this.

They did it in ancient Greece. What could go wrong?

[Leifr]

Argyrosis, for a start.