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blindcoder

Dirty Water and Saltwater - get sick by drinking from the toilet / rain barrel, collect water from rivers

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i still dont get the SALTwater part. like Aldrayit said:

 

 River water however is more likely to contain pieces of algae, leaves, rocks, aquatic / wild animal waste, etc so forth. 

That stated though, a distillery seems a bit overkill for the amount of water / region the game takes place xD 

 

the water is seriously dirty. maybe there are dead bodys or zombies in the water you dont know about. if it is not a river but a lake it is even worse.

you maybe can filter the water but are you sure that you get everything out by using a selfmade filtersystem? without any hospitals around you should boil lake/river water no matter how clean it looks.

that said i dont think a distillery is overkill. you dont have to make new clean water every day and can focus on other thinks. (depents on how you store the water) if you are not the only survivor you will need quite a lot of water. 2-8l/day per person only for drinking (hard work in summer or sickness).

 

idea:

because distilled water has the best water quality you can get, we could use it to make a bottle of disinfectant. if you use normal boild water it still could have small traces of dirt in it.

 

distilled water + bleach = bottle of disinfectant.

 

or if you want a new ingame item it would be

distilled water + bleach = bottle of dakin’s solution.

 

a new ingame item would be perfekt because the bleach disinfectant will damage the wound a bit. every use could cost you 1-3 hp and you can not store it for a long time. lets say a 3-7 days.

 

dakin’s solution:

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/150035/Dakins-solution

http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-62261/dakin%27s-misc/details

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Drysdale_Dakin

 

 

 

long post make short:

i do think a distillery is a good think and it should stay but saltwater just does not make any sense.

you could call it mudwater. (if this is a word in english)

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i still dont get the SALTwater part. 

 

Not to play an advocate here, but I think he just separated the "Salt water" and "Dirty Water" mods and made them separate, so you can only install the "Dirty" one in the main game, but keep the "salt" water for maps that actually have them, like, for example, New Denver. :P

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i still dont get the SALTwater part. 

 

Not to play an advocate here, but I think he just separated the "Salt water" and "Dirty Water" mods and made them separate, so you can only install the "Dirty" one in the main game, but keep the "salt" water for maps that actually have them, like, for example, New Denver. :P

 

 

Exactly :-)

i still dont get the SALTwater part. like Aldrayit said:

 

 River water however is more likely to contain pieces of algae, leaves, rocks, aquatic / wild animal waste, etc so forth. 

That stated though, a distillery seems a bit overkill for the amount of water / region the game takes place xD 

 

the water is seriously dirty. maybe there are dead bodys or zombies in the water you dont know about. if it is not a river but a lake it is even worse.

you maybe can filter the water but are you sure that you get everything out by using a selfmade filtersystem? without any hospitals around you should boil lake/river water no matter how clean it looks.

that said i dont think a distillery is overkill. you dont have to make new clean water every day and can focus on other thinks. (depents on how you store the water) if you are not the only survivor you will need quite a lot of water. 2-8l/day per person only for drinking (hard work in summer or sickness).

 

idea:

because distilled water has the best water quality you can get, we could use it to make a bottle of disinfectant. if you use normal boild water it still could have small traces of dirt in it.

 

distilled water + bleach = bottle of disinfectant.

 

or if you want a new ingame item it would be

distilled water + bleach = bottle of dakin’s solution.

 

a new ingame item would be perfekt because the bleach disinfectant will damage the wound a bit. every use could cost you 1-3 hp and you can not store it for a long time. lets say a 3-7 days.

 

dakin’s solution:

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/150035/Dakins-solution

http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-62261/dakin%27s-misc/details

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Drysdale_Dakin

 

 

 

long post make short:

i do think a distillery is a good think and it should stay but saltwater just does not make any sense.

you could call it mudwater. (if this is a word in english)

 

I like the in-depth information you give here, seriously!

OTOH, I want to keep this mod as generic as possible, so I do not want to create a new item for every saltwater-filled container, which is why I use modData and setIsWaterSource.

If you want to implement this (and I think it's a pretty cool idea!) you can build upon this mod with another and require this one in the details. I think mods can now "require" one another. I'd surely play it :)

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I'd just really like to keep the still in :)

 

it would be a good reason of existence for the still. if the people start using bleach to disinfect water they will soon think about using it on their wounds and may asked you if you can do it anyway. ;)  just using normal water and bleach would be far to easy. 

but do as you like. your mod is great as it is.

 

 

i would loved to make it myself but i dont have a clue about modding.  :(

if somebody else knows how to make it, you are welcome.

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Great mod.  Here are a few of my thoughts:

 

1)  Definitely keep salt water for map making.

 

2)  Keep the still in.

 

3)  Possible new water type:  Questionable.  It would look exactly like clean water, but possibly be tainted based where found, how long there, etc.

 

4)  Different effects/illnesses from different pollutants, rather than just small health hits.  It's too bad that hygiene and going to the bathroom are on the developer's 'no' list.  I know this sounds a bit like The Sims, but bear with me.  Urinating would be quicker for males and done standing anywhere, defecation would require a squatting animation, take longer, and would allow for inventory management or crafting during the act.  This ties into the Dirty Water mod since tainted water could cause diarrhea, which would make the player even more dehydrated, and slow them down unless they just wanted to let it go like a marathon runner.

 

This is the end of my Dirty Water thoughts.  Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to make a mod that makes the game just that much more immersive.  Continue reading if you would like to experience the stream of consciousness ramblings of a man wasting far too much time thinking about the possibilities of this game instead of actually playing it.

 

I see the need to go to the bathroom as a bit of a tough sell, since it seems like a lot of work to implement a feature that many might feel hurts the flow of the game.  I'll try and strengthen my case anyway.  Benefits of a 'gotta go' mod/feature:

 

-It would create a moment of vulnerability.  If you are out in the open, a zombie could be coming up from behind.  If you're in a stall or see a closed stall in multiplayer, well.. you get the idea.

-In toilets, once the water shuts off, any type of water could be poured in to manually flush them.

-Tissue or toilet paper would be recommended, otherwise the player could take a happiness hit due to lack of hygiene.  In multiplayer, others around you could take a happiness hit due to your lack of hygiene.  This effect could go away with time, as the characters lose touch with what modern life was.

-Different characters would have different cycles, and they would be affected by the amount of eating/drinking.  The more you eat or drink, the sooner you would have to go.

-Really having to go could affect your effectiveness in combat, carpentry, etc.

-The duration would be based on intake.  #1 2-5 seconds.  #2 5-10 seconds.

-Involuntary evacuation due to illness, diarrhea, and just not being able to hold it anymore would cause a hit to happiness.  Going in an actual toilets could give a slight bump.

-Less frequent need to go could be a trait, as could not taking a hit to happiness from bad hygiene (slob trait?).

 

I may be going a bit overboard, but if one of the goals is realism....  Anyway, the developer has already stated a lack of interest in hygiene/bathroom, and I won't have the time to get into modding for the foreseeable future.  So, I guess I'm just rambling at this point.   :???:

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I just want to mention unless there is heavy pollutants in the air, drinking rain water would not get you sick... it's actually clean.  And i dont think there's many pollutants in the air considering nobody is driving cars, most refineries will have shut down due to zombie infestation and factories as well.  But i like the idea! thanks for an awesome mod!

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Hey blindcoder, is there any possible way you could make a water funnel that you can craft from a plastic bottle? Cut out the bottom and one of the sides of a plastic bottle to turn it into a sort of miniature rain scoop. Hold it to your mouth when it rains to funnel water into your mouth or use it to fill up the containers you have with you whenever it rains. Could be a timed action only available when it rains.

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I just want to mention unless there is heavy pollutants in the air, drinking rain water would not get you sick... it's actually clean.  And i dont think there's many pollutants in the air considering nobody is driving cars, most refineries will have shut down due to zombie infestation and factories as well.  But i like the idea! thanks for an awesome mod!

 

 

@WarAndStryfe: The pollution comes from storing the water. Stagnant water will get "dirty" over time.

 

From everything I remember from my school days and - admittedly - limited research, rainwater is generally not safe to drink as it's washing out particles from the air. While this has decreased in recent time (sulfuric acid in rainwater has decreased by 60% in the last two decades(!) in Germany from what I've found), it's still not near tap-water quality. Unless your stomach is used to this, you really shouldn't drink it if you have an alternative.

 

What really made me understand what this means was when I was in a hotel in Uzbekistan and drank some tap-water without thinking. You don't want to know the rest of the story...

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Hey blindcoder, is there any possible way you could make a water funnel that you can craft from a plastic bottle? Cut out the bottom and one of the sides of a plastic bottle to turn it into a sort of miniature rain scoop. Hold it to your mouth when it rains to funnel water into your mouth or use it to fill up the containers you have with you whenever it rains. Could be a timed action only available when it rains.

 

I like the idea, but I don't think it belongs into this mod. It's certainly possible, as you can easily make a recipe for this (bottle + keep kitchen knife) and you can also create a "Drink Rainwater with funnel" option depending on if it's raining or not.

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@WarAndStryfe: The pollution comes from storing the water. Stagnant water will get "dirty" over time.

So your mod is set up to allow for a "stagnation period" so to speak?  Meaning that if it just rained then i can drink from the rain collector and not get sick? if so, i'm sorry. If not, is it possible to add this sort of feature to your mod?  I don't know much about modding and coding so im just curious.

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I just want to mention unless there is heavy pollutants in the air, drinking rain water would not get you sick... it's actually clean.  And i dont think there's many pollutants in the air considering nobody is driving cars, most refineries will have shut down due to zombie infestation and factories as well.  But i like the idea! thanks for an awesome mod!

 

 

@WarAndStryfe: The pollution comes from storing the water. Stagnant water will get "dirty" over time.

 

From everything I remember from my school days and - admittedly - limited research, rainwater is generally not safe to drink as it's washing out particles from the air. While this has decreased in recent time (sulfuric acid in rainwater has decreased by 60% in the last two decades(!) in Germany from what I've found), it's still not near tap-water quality. Unless your stomach is used to this, you really shouldn't drink it if you have an alternative.

 

What really made me understand what this means was when I was in a hotel in Uzbekistan and drank some tap-water without thinking. You don't want to know the rest of the story...

 

I also pointed out that a lot of pollutants will be out of the air during the apocolypse.

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As it has already been pointed out, the mod is good, at least the idea behind it is great, but I believe it is significantly overzealous in its current form!

 

I mean, toilet water is bad, that's the best feature of this mod, yes; but rain water in barrels? Why?! Stagnation, someone says; well, the mod doesn't wait a week before making rain water in barrels bad, does it? Pollution in the air? Who pollutes the air in today's world? Isn't it the abundance of irresponsible humans and corrupt corporations? One assumes one advantage of the apocalypse is that it has ridden the world of those problems: not that many irresponsible humans anymore (many compared to the planet, not to the rest of survivors), and not many corrupt corporations—if any. So in an apocalyptic world of this type, rain water should really be perfectly safe to drink. If you want to consider stagnation, then do some research on how long does it take for water to become stagnant [and] poisonous in a wooden barrel, and make the water turn stagnant after X number of days. Also drinking from rivers or any running water should only be poisonous the first few times, but afterwards, it should be perfectly fine; humans have been drinking from rivers for thousands of years, you know?

This game is already ruthless as it is, and the developers have no qualms about openly dooming your character to death from day 1. If you understand Arabic, you'll know that even the theme song mentions someone who is ruthless ("aasee"...probably the developers or decision makers behind the world, just saying in a light-hearted manner); so while it is fine to add a bit of realism, and I fully support giving a negative result from toilet water, I do sincerely hope that the ideas behind this mod would never enter the game in their current form, because they are collectively too overzealous and make the world even more hostile than it already is; and, mind you, it is pretty darn hostile as it is.

And in the real world, overzealous concern about bacteria has created more harm and pollution in the world than good. Products that advertise killing 99.9% of bacteria have to add a gross amount of chemicals, some carcinogenic or cancer-causing, in order to achieve that sadly lauded result. Pasteurization does not just kill harmful bacteria, but also good bacteria; bacteria that you, later on, have to pay for in fancily branded yogurt products! Like how corporations convinced the masses that pasteurization is healthy and good for everything with liquid, while in reality, it's only good for their profit (by lengthening shelf life in stores); they kill not just harmful and good bacteria in milk, for example, but kill everything in milk! Turn it into an inert, lifeless liquid. And those are just two of the countless examples of what this mentality has done to our world. There is a fine line between irresponsible, risky dirtiness, and overzealous, harmful eradication of everything with life under the banner of "purification" or "cleaning".

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Congratulations for getting your mod incorporated into the game!

 

 

Yes, congratulations!  I'm curious if you know how much of your mod will be incorporated and if you plan on re-configuring this mod to alter or extend the upcoming water changes.

 

Thanks :-)

It is not my mod directly taken, but it has been incorporated in a - code-wise - much nicer way.

I was talking with RJ, and from what I gathered there's now a new flag for water squares "tainted" which mappers can use to define "clean" water (like springs or lakes) and "tainted" water (like muddy rivers).

You will still be able to drink that tainted water, but you will get sick from it.

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As it has already been pointed out, the mod is good, at least the idea behind it is great, but I believe it is significantly overzealous in its current form!

[...]

 

As with my mod, the rain barrel is considered dirty, mainly because of my school teachings about acidic rain and a little research into rainwater quality.

From what I understand, rain water will be considered "untainted" in the next build, just watertiles can be marked Tainted by mappers.

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I could imagine one reason water in containers (at least uncovered containers) would "go bad": Insects and parasites. At least here in Pennsylvania, if you leave water uncovered outdoors for so much as a day you can expect to find mosquito larvae, among other things, swimming in it the next morning. From what I've seen this also applies to lakes, rivers, ponds etc. especially in areas where the water is still. This definitely applies in spring and summer, but I'm not sure about the winter. I'd imagine there are some parasites that would remain dormant during this time.

 

Granted, nobody would want to drink a glass full of baby mosquitoes, but what about less obvious parasites that could be found in the water, like Giardia? There are also other parasitic diseases that can be caused by contaminated water. Not trying to invalidate anyone's thoughts, but personally I would think water contamination would be rampant during the apocalypse.

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I could imagine one reason water in containers (at least uncovered containers) would "go bad": Insects and parasites. At least here in Pennsylvania, if you leave water uncovered outdoors for so much as a day you can expect to find mosquito larvae, among other things, swimming in it the next morning. From what I've seen this also applies to lakes, rivers, ponds etc. especially in areas where the water is still. This definitely applies in spring and summer, but I'm not sure about the winter. I'd imagine there are some parasites that would remain dormant during this time.

 

Granted, nobody would want to drink a glass full of baby mosquitoes, but what about less obvious parasites that could be found in the water, like Giardia? There are also other parasitic diseases that can be caused by contaminated water. Not trying to invalidate anyone's thoughts, but personally I would think water contamination would be rampant during the apocalypse.

Not to mention bacteria, fungus spores, and viruses in the air.

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I'm so glad to hear about the new tile definitions for water. This will be very interesting.

 

I'm hoping the flag isn't strictly binary "IsTainted Yes:No" but has the capacity for other flags. I've suggested before three levels: Fresh, Stagnant, and Foul. A third option would let you calibrate water difficulty with another flag rather than being limited to buffing or depowering "Tainted". A third option would also allow the game to trigger another increase in global difficulty. For example, let's say you have three types of water: Easy, Medium, and Hard. Water shut off makes water go from Easy to Medium. After a few more months (year?), a global trigger could make Medium water become Hard.

 

With two water states, you have Easy and Medium/Hard. People will complain Medium/Hard is either too hard or not hard enough. Does tainted water just make you sick or does it kill you? A third water state provides an intermediate state, and allows the game to make Hard really fucking crazy Hard like it should be. For example:

 

Easy (Fresh, whatever): no affect

Medium (Stagnant, Tainted, whatever): 35% chance of sickness, sad moodle

Hard (Foul, Toxic, Polluted, whatever):  100% chance of sickness, 65% chance of death, sad moodle...

 

I have mixed theories about whether water quality would become more or less dangerous in a zombie apocalypse. As civilization collapsed the immediate pollutants in water sources would decrease. No more factories or construction churning out pollution so I think rivers could actually become cleaner. On the other hand, all of the disease ridden human corpses would go somewhere. If they are the zombie kind, quite a few will wander into rivers and water sources. If they are the non-moving kind, they are going to be washed into water sources. Additionally, without human intervention many water management programs will cease to function. Levees will break, stuff will collapse, etc. This could seriously increase the amount of pollution in water sources.

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well,interesting work.

one question:is there a prefix to show that which bottle of water is dirty?

Not in my mod, but in the next build of PZ there will be.

got it.

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I'm having a problem with this mod. I added it to my server, and I was able to build both the still and cooler just fine. When I logged out the still and cooler disappeared but I was still able to right click the firepit and see the still tab with the options to check water, fill, and empty. Same with the cooler. How do I fix this to make the still and cooler visible each time I log back in?

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