Operation Fix Late Game By Killing You Before You Get There

[sweetcandyflip]

can we expect this awesome ideas in the next builds or is this your 1.0 plan ?

[Bull Dog]

"re: this - we're going to be doing a professions overhaul. Idea being if you want to do carpentry then pick a carpentry based profession and you'll start with a huge headstart skills wise (start with a point or two, say, and 3x speed of level up). But will therefore suck ass at farming, and combat, etc etc. Or you could pick someone who is good at combat and they would have a much harder time getting to level of skill necessary to build stairs. Nothing is locked off, but professions unsuited or unrelated to a skill will make it more difficult, longer for someone to get proficient.

Makes profession choice (and we want to add hobbies too as a second modifier) much more agonizing and important. And more interesting for MP too. And NPCs when they come about," (fked the quoting up, on mobile)

Adding to this, by realism if you are an carpenter your maintenance on hammers should increase because you know how to wield them and swing them correctly, but still have no experience of fighting. I mean, even if you've never fought, you should know to use your favorite tool without damaging it (much)

[Falke]

Thanks so much. This is like the best news ever for this game!

 

Hordes inc.

[Dr Gonzo]

can we expect this awesome ideas in the next builds or is this your 1.0 plan ?

 

It's probably fair to say this is going to be an ongoing thing as the game continues to grow and develop.

[ChosunOne]

I think gaunti12 hit the nail on the head with his suggestions.  I would love to see wild animals, megahordes, and the like in the game as well.  But not neglecting NPCs, I think that they will also provide an interesting late game dynamic.  As the NPCs get more desparate, they should be more aggressive, and they might make the late game much harder (provided they survive, that is).  

 

Also, with the erosion mod being implemented into the game, I think making farming not an option during the winters would definitely make it more challenging as you must survive for roughly three and a half months without any extra food source than your stockpiles.  Imagine a megahorde attacking at the beginning of winter.  You are basically stuck in your base forced to either brave the horde or dwindle away your remaining supplies, hoping that something else draws the horde away.

[Jatta Pake]

Suggestions:

-make it so you can only climb down sheet rope, not up. Or make it a special ability for the Firefighter profession. I doubt the Average Joe can climb up a rope.

-allow hordes to destroy prebuilt structures

-increase grab strength of zombies as time goes on

-character should acquire negatives as time goes on - long term damage to being constantly stressed, bored, hungry, thirsty, lonely, exhausted. Right now, characters either die or improve as time goes on. Improvement should really only balance out the inevitable negatives acquired living without modern medicine, hygiene, food, etc.

-add more ways to die

[SailorWolf]

Sorry to point this out and all but why give us all the skills to keep us alive and build a cool ZA base to live in....if you want us dead before 2 months has passed? Seems pointless to me unless you are going to start us with piles of lumber, food and weapons at the start.... oh yeah people cried cause they lived to long and got bored. I thought that was the point live in a ZA for as long as you can...my last start I was in the hotel in the thick of zombies and could only find a damn pencil but I survived. If you want to make the game harder you don't need hordes or damn respawns of zeds every 2 minutes...just give the zombies a better grip. Oh here's a endgame for you old age

 

Yes I'm the sailorwolf from steam which I'm blocking any updates to the game so I can keep it as it is now cause I want to fish and build a cool base to live in. I love that about this game it's something SoD doesn't have but sadly this game has no story line/ mode at this time so I don't see a point in endgame talk. I have a little over 100 hours on this game and have got to see myself died like 5 times...I have lived for almost 5 months this time and i'm loving it. Just change that last part to "and this is how you survived" I take risk still my current plan is looting the gun shop...I have a fob set up in West Point it was a long run and hard fought. Setting up a jump point at the trailer park was a crazy battle...It's just my point of view  but the game is already as hard as you make it. So if the people crying "i ain't dead yet" are hiding in a house then walk down main street with a butter knife death will find you all soon enough.

 

Yes you want to make a unbeatable game but us as gamers want to beat it and if you make it unbeatable then you will hear crying about that.... welcome to the world of game making. Maybe make a easy normal and hard mode and let us the game player make the choice instead of like every other game maker and just force us to live with all the preteens crying they are bored. Thank you my rant is finished

[syfy]

hell, there's no way to keep ALL the gamers happy. Damned if you Do try to make the game more difficult. Damned if you Don't try to make it more difficult. personally, i'm intrigued by the basic idea of this, and real curious to see how it all works out...in time. i want to see a horde come knocking on my door after 3 months. i want there to be the constant threat, just as it would conceivably be "In Real Life". i want to be so occupied with maintaining my base/fort's security that i forget to water my garden. i want the game to force me to stop playing the way i do now, and force me to adapt my play style to The Governors evil plans so i can stave off death as long as possible.

 

the real question for me, is how these new plans will work when you throw in the NPC variable, since we don't really know at this time how they will act/react to  Situation X.

 

obviously, this new plan has some fleshing out to do, i hope as it becomes clearer that you will update us on this.

[Blasted_Taco]

Sorry to point this out and all but why give us all the skills to keep us alive and build a cool ZA base to live in....if you want us dead before 2 months has passed? Seems pointless to me unless you are going to start us with piles of lumber, food and weapons at the start.... oh yeah people cried cause they lived to long and got bored. I thought that was the point live in a ZA for as long as you can...my last start I was in the hotel in the thick of zombies and could only find a damn pencil but I survived. If you want to make the game harder you don't need hordes or damn respawns of zeds every 2 minutes...just give the zombies a better grip. Oh here's a endgame for you old age

 

Yes I'm the sailorwolf from steam which I'm blocking any updates to the game so I can keep it as it is now cause I want to fish and build a cool base to live in. I love that about this game it's something SoD doesn't have but sadly this game has no story line/ mode at this time so I don't see a point in endgame talk. I have a little over 100 hours on this game and have got to see myself died like 5 times...I have lived for almost 5 months this time and i'm loving it. Just change that last part to "and this is how you survived" I take risk still my current plan is looting the gun shop...I have a fob set up in West Point it was a long run and hard fought. Setting up a jump point at the trailer park was a crazy battle...It's just my point of view  but the game is already as hard as you make it. So if the people crying "i ain't dead yet" are hiding in a house then walk down main street with a butter knife death will find you all soon enough.

 

Yes you want to make a unbeatable game but us as gamers want to beat it and if you make it unbeatable then you will hear crying about that.... welcome to the world of game making. Maybe make a easy normal and hard mode and let us the game player make the choice instead of like every other game maker and just force us to live with all the preteens crying they are bored. Thank you my rant is finished

 

I dont want a game where i will survive against all odds in the apocalypse god dang it, i want a game where i died because i was stupid or because some shit hit the fan and i lose my character or base, i want a game that makes me feel that there is no way to win, just keep going until i die, i want to die in this game, i dont want to win.

 

I want to find death around every corner, i want raiders trying to rob me, and all the nosie they made make hordes of zombies come to my base and i want to die inside my base, i dont want a game where somehow i beat 5 raiders by my own and then took on a horde of zombies while blasting music.

 

Make a easy mode for people just starting the game,but make the game feel like you acomplished something when you survive your first week. You are fighting the god damn undead who is killing the whole nation, you alone aint going to survive much.

 

I want to fear having a zombie see me insde my base, i want to fear having to fight a zombie cause he might grab me and tackle me to the ground to gore the guts of  my level 10 chracter that i took hours to shape up.

 

I dont want to win in this game, i dont want a happy ending, i want to cry at a game over screen as i see my dead character reanimate and start muching on my sleeping NPC friend who survived with me long enought to see the streets cover in dead bodies and grass.

[Suomiboi]

@SailorWolf : But the game is planned to kill the player. That's the point of the game. You will die.

Imho, if you want an easier game experience, the sandbox is for you.

[RobertJohnson]

We do not intend to make the game "unbeatable", it's just that we added many way to survive (fishing, trapping, more building, foraging..) making the game easy to survive, we want to bring back the good ol' zombie apocalypse, where every step count, every mistake could be the last, where sleeping without curtains and light on mean inevitable death.

 

It'll still be ok to survive, you'll just have to be very carefull, the thing right now, with an axe you can survive for month, because you don't really fear a 300+ zombies horde roaming, everyone now do quickly some carpentry and then build rain barrel + farming, and well, you're set, the games can become boring for lot of people because of that.

 

And I personally love rogue like game where every step count, where it's difficult, but you have a learning curve, take Dark Souls, they do it perfectly, the game is hard, but you learn from your playthrough, each time you learn new reflex to have, etc.

Well, same here, you'll have to learn quick to barricade your stuff, to check if no zombies are around your safehouse when going to sleep, etc..

 

And remember we'll also have the begginer mode (which prob be easier than the current survival)

 

For the ETA, as always, NO ETA !

But it won't be right now, we're polishing build 29, we progressing on build 30, then I think after build 30 we'll start this, tbh, I can't wait to bring back "the horde"

[robban279]

I respect your opinion, but I also disagree with you Sailorwolf, you shouldn't say "us as gamers want to beat it". I don't mean to offend you, but you can't speak for everyone like that.

From the start of this game developing I've been "praying" that TIS sticks with their original idea.

I want something that's on the verge to impossible to accomplish and if I'm still lucky / skilled enough to survive for a while after "endgame", then it'll feel even better.

What made me stop playing this game was the lack of challenge. I just want me and my group of surviving NPCS, my dog and our safe house to be under constant threat. I want us to have difficult decisions and risky choises that literally has to be done! When a day start I want to worry if everyone is going to still be here when the night comes.

The way I imagine this in my head, would be the ultimate game for me. I'm so lucky TIS is making this real, cause I honestly don't think anyone ever done this before and I can't imagine that any other developer share the same ideas I do about surviving the z apocalypse.

I genuinely don't care about "gamer psychology" or the "need of completing a game", all that stuff belongs to the mass producing, main stream gaming industry. This game is far better than most of them and it has far more potential.

I do not wish for this game to be another greyed out title in my steam list, I want it to stay under the "favourites" tab for years.. And I genuinely think that if TIS completes their goals and keep the challenge alive, that's what's gonna happen.

[Jabberi]

I feel like Minecraft was also going to be a survival horror game at one point in it's development and also had this problem of lategame becoming boring. Instead of making the game harder, Mojang solved it by adding more stuff to build and explore ( with the help of numerous modders ). I like the fact that TiS is taking a different approach and putting more emphasis on the survival gameplay.

 

Not that I want it, but PZ could also turn into a peacefull building game. Just add some kind of redstone system to automate farming and maybe even grinding of zombies, then there could be new decorations, because every survivor needs some nice curtains and a hottub. Maybe some zombies could also drop rare seeds that can be farmed for making fancy paint, rare cool looking clothes, etc.. You got the point.

[RobertJohnson]

Our redstone will be elecitricity, everyone have great plan for that

 

But yeah, it'll be late game, peacefull mode can be already done with Sandbox, I could add a cheat mode for the carpentry in the sandbox option tho..

[Dryke]

I'm all for making the game harder as long as you are doing it by using:

 

1. Realistic threats (with realistic counters).  Food shortage?  Sure thing, as long as food does not rot or vanish artificially quickly.  Disease/Illness?  Sure, as long as you get sick realistically, and/or there are in game countermeasures where they would be appropriate.  There should not be ANY unrealistic threats except for the zombies themselves - otherwise this stops being a game about the ZA and instead becomes something else.

 

2. Tougher zombies.  This doesn't have to mean making the zombies less canon - the ways you've discussed here sound great (improving the AI for gathering/creating hordes, new hordes migrating in, etc.)

 

I totally get that the game has become easier because the amount of survival techniques have improved without ramping up the overall difficulty.  I just get worried when people start talking about 'it should get harder as the game goes on' because it makes me think we're talking about some meta-game difficulty slider that just cranks things up as you go on, rather than by producing a realistic survival scenario where things MIGHT get harder as you go on, but where that isn't a necessary outcome because the game is simply coded that way.  The game I have ALWAYS been waiting for is the one that presents the zombie apocalypse in the most realistic world possible, and I hope PZ doesn't end up moving away from that to make all the 'this is too easy' people happier.

[SailorWolf]

I guess some people are lucking out on finding things like a axe or a trowel but it was 2 months in game to find a trowel and over 3 to find a axe. Spent most my time beating down trees with a crowbar so I could make planks. Yes I searched warehouses and sheds but every place I thought to find the tools I needed didn't have them. So I could see how if you are one of the lucky ones who finds everything they need in the first days of the game, would think it was to easy.

[explorator]

I waited a day to respond to this thread so I could collect my thoughts.  I think all segments of the game will need to be fully implemented before we have a true gauge of the difficulty level.  If we actually had to worry about passing out due to exhaustion, or sleeping 18 hours a day due to depression, or if we suffered a penalty to experience due to boredom, it would give us a true measure of how hard it will be to survive long term.

 

I trust the development team will finish implementing current unfinished content before they decide to turn it up to eleven.    Once we know how all aspects of game play will synergize, fine-tuning the difficulty will be much simpler.

 

I have long looked forward to an update to the professions, so I am pretty happy to hear it is on the horizon.

[robban279]

I just hope I will see people (NPCS) come and go and grow in our safe house and some will die and eventually the player himself gets into a situation were he/she can't get out alive. Every day alive should feel like an accomplishment if you ask me..

I'm sure TIS will find a solution that suits everyone, Sandbox already exists and as the game developes, I'm sure we'll get more options to choose our play style too.

[Blasted_Taco]

I guess some people are lucking out on finding things like a axe or a trowel but it was 2 months in game to find a trowel and over 3 to find a axe. Spent most my time beating down trees with a crowbar so I could make planks. Yes I searched warehouses and sheds but every place I thought to find the tools I needed didn't have them. So I could see how if you are one of the lucky ones who finds everything they need in the first days of the game, would think it was to easy.

 

People who have played the pre-alpha builds and demo knows how insane difficult it was to survive more than a week in PZ because of the hordes of zombies that would destroy your homebase and chase you all the way to hell and back if you didnt put a sheet on a window before going to sleep.

 

I dont know how it took you 2 months to find a trowel, by the first week i have looted all the houses near my safehouse, by the second week i start looting the city and by the third week i am already bored.

 

You should play the new version where you really need an axe to take down a tree insted of bashing it with a crowbar (or a mighty pan in my version), atleast that made it a little more interesting to go and serch for an axe, but insted you can bash down doors with a pan and get planks, easy.

 

But why would you want planks anyway? Barricading is not useful if zombies dont show up at your door, so most of the time you need to bash around a full house worth of doors to get the rain collector and you are set, but if you are smart you just stockpile water the first 3 days and you are set for a month.

 

I dont have luck at all when it comes down to looting, so i just loot everywhere i can to have a chance to find something useful, dont know how you play tho.

[SailorWolf]

 

I guess some people are lucking out on finding things like a axe or a trowel but it was 2 months in game to find a trowel and over 3 to find a axe. Spent most my time beating down trees with a crowbar so I could make planks. Yes I searched warehouses and sheds but every place I thought to find the tools I needed didn't have them. So I could see how if you are one of the lucky ones who finds everything they need in the first days of the game, would think it was to easy.

 

People who have played the pre-alpha builds and demo knows how insane difficult it was to survive more than a week in PZ because of the hordes of zombies that would destroy your homebase and chase you all the way to hell and back if you didnt put a sheet on a window before going to sleep.

 

I dont know how it took you 2 months to find a trowel, by the first week i have looted all the houses near my safehouse, by the second week i start looting the city and by the third week i am already bored.

 

You should play the new version where you really need an axe to take down a tree insted of bashing it with a crowbar (or a mighty pan in my version), atleast that made it a little more interesting to go and serch for an axe, but insted you can bash down doors with a pan and get planks, easy.

 

But why would you want planks anyway? Barricading is not useful if zombies dont show up at your door, so most of the time you need to bash around a full house worth of doors to get the rain collector and you are set, but if you are smart you just stockpile water the first 3 days and you are set for a month.

 

I dont have luck at all when it comes down to looting, so i just loot everywhere i can to have a chance to find something useful, dont know how you play tho.

 

I'm playing build 28 which is what I got when I bought the game on Steam. With my job and RL I don't have time to test 29 and have it do me or the game makers any good. It's great you've been playing since day one of this game you must be like a freaking master at it. Me I just got the game and love it lol I play it every minute I can and I've been a gamer since Pong in the early days. So please don't talk down to me like a some 5 year old.

 

As for how I play I search and loot everything I see houses,buildings even boxes setting outside. Why do I board up windows ....because it's a ZA and it my way of making sure I'm somewhat safe. I also cover windows and turn lights off when I pick a house I want to make my base. So talk on about me on that too if you like... you act like I'm bashing this game when I'm not. Seem to me if you've been playing it forever you'd try to be more helpful to new players... but maybe that's not your style which I'm cool with me.

[EnigmaGrey]

I have a feeling there's nothing there that Blased_Taco meant as offensive, SailorWolf. He was just trying to be helpful, while discussing your points.

[Rathlord]

Please remember everyone the number one rule of our forums is "Be Lovely." Whether you're new to the forums or a veteran please keep that in mind. Feel free to debate and disagree, but I don't want to see anyone talking to anyone else in an unlovely way. First warning is free for everyone.

[SailorWolf]

Please remember everyone the number one rule of our forums is "Be Lovely." Whether you're new to the forums or a veteran please keep that in mind. Feel free to debate and disagree, but I don't want to see anyone talking to anyone else in an unlovely way. First warning is free for everyone.

Just defending myself and how I play and he talks down to me like I'm stupid when I just started playing. I have a good grasp of the game and what I want to do when when setting up my home base. I haven't been playing since day one like him so yes I'm going to defend myself when being talked down too. Never mind ban me

[Rathlord]

I'm warning him and you to stop talking to each other completely. That's me (the mod) defending you from any further comment. If you have a problem with how someone is talking to you, there's a report button below their post that you can feel free to click- we'll check it within minutes and act on it if necessary. I'm sure you can understand why we don't want people fighting here though, right (even if someone did do something bad to you)? We'd much rather take care of it ourselves than just let two people have it out in public- that's pretty common to most forums.

 

So please, stick around. We'd love to have you as part of the community, and I'm not going to ban you- that's why it was just a general warning!

[SailorWolf]

I'm warning him and you to stop talking to each other completely. That's me (the mod) defending you from any further comment. If you have a problem with how someone is talking to you, there's a report button below their post that you can feel free to click- we'll check it within minutes and act on it if necessary. I'm sure you can understand why we don't want people fighting here though, right (even if someone did do something bad to you)? We'd much rather take care of it ourselves than just let two people have it out in public- that's pretty common to most forums.

 

So please, stick around. We'd love to have you as part of the community, and I'm not going to ban you- that's why it was just a general warning!

I only joined here cause the Steam forums is full of flamers and trolls and it gets pointless to try to find any useful info. So I came here thinking things would be better and faster. Thank you I understand all forums have rules in place and you might be defending me but I've survived being stabbed twice so I doubt his condescending talk down would hurt much. I'm just use to SoD forums where players who have played a long time are very helpful to new players and if I get a chance I'll be like I am there welcoming new people and helping in any way I can.