Lol taking ppl hostage will be in the game?

[miked79]

My friend just told me that... Is that true? cuz that sounds delightful!

[syfy]

sure as hell hope not, we already have plenty of other games where that can be done. why do we need it in PZ?

[SuperJack]

Because it happens in reality?

Because its something people would really do?

[syfy]

we have to suspend reality to play a game about a zombie apocalypse, remember?

this is a different game than all the other zombie games.

 

why not stay different and NOT have hostage taking, and take away one of the common griefers favorite things?

[bvhv]

I can't even....... what......

 

http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/108-forum-rules/

 

btw i'm talking to the maker of the thread FYI

[SuperJack]

Its different that its trying to get as close as a Survivor Simulation in a Zombie Apocalypse as possible, trying to get as close to what would it really be like, whilst keeping in mind that it still has to be a game.

 

Kidnapping will happen. It will be involved, mostly for NPC play, but will be brought into Multiplayer also. It would happen in real life, and it does happen quite a lot.

 

Both your reasons to not include it:

 

Because other games have it?

So, other games have zombies, guns, people, cars, deaths, skills, inventorys. should we remove them to?

Zombie games, will have similarities between them, because after all, they are all zombie games.

 

Because people grief with it?

If that's the case. Then remove all PvP, Fires, Destruction and so on.

They are not going to bubblewrap the game for the sake of a few trolls. Are they really going to let Trolls control what they put into the game?

[syfy]

yep, the exact argument i expected

 

 

and i already know that if i get started in this that i will most definitely violate our #1 rule...Be Lovely.

hostage taking gets me very riled up and i search high and low to find games that do not have it....hence me having over 1500 in game hours on farming sim 2013, or unknown amounts of time cruising in TDU2 and ETS2,  building new cities in Sim City 4, and creating new parks and rides in RCT3.

 

so i will simply state that it is NOT something i want or see any reason to have in the game, and leave it at that.

that is my opinion.

[SuperJack]

Dude. Them Crops and Cows had a life before you Kidnapped them.

 

Why do you force people to live in your city?

 

And, you lock people into mechanical crazy machines that spin them round and everywhere?

 

 

E-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g has kidnapping.

[syfy]

somehow this seems to me like you are trying VERY hard to get me going.

so i will say again, i will not be goaded by you into breaking the Be Lovely rule.

 

[SuperJack]

Love <3

[bvhv]

The reason i reacted the way to the OP was because it wasn't really a discussion or a suggestion....

[Kajin]

I'd be against having this in the game for the simple reason that it takes away control from the player. You don't ever take control away from the player. It's just bad game design.

[Gimolia123]

If I'm standing there with my rolling pin and someone walks up to me with a shotgun pointed in my direction and tells me to do something, you better believe the next words coming out of my mouth are gonna be "Yes, Sir."

 

I don't really think there should be an aspect of the game that *literally* takes you hostage, but if you value your character's life at all then there will be an actual method in my opinion.

[Rathlord]

It's already in- point a gun at a person and tell them to start walking. There's not going to be any arbitrary, enforced game system for hostage taking, though, as it's unnecessary and completely unrealistic.

[Suomiboi]

You can read this and draw your own conclusions/opinions:

http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/3-mondoid-reposts/?p=130621

Animaniac
After moving into our new office, we had a surprise reconnection with an old friend, a guy both Binky and Lemmy worked with in our old commercial games industry days happened to be contracting at a company in the same building. And what does he do? He’s an animator! What does this mean? It means in September, when he’s free, we will be working with him to finally start getting a ton of new animations into the game. This is extremely exciting, because while Binky has the anim skillz, not only is his time split between so many things, but by his own admission he’s never going to produce the results that a full time professional 3D animator would, or as fast for that matter. We’re anticipating  getting a whole host of new character animations into the game very quickly. From sneaking, pressing against walls, crouching, more zombie walks, hostage taking, looting, backpack manipulation, we’ll suddenly be getting pretty much full time animation support at least for a few months following September. Let’s put it this way. We sent him a list with some 40-50 animations and his response was pretty much a shrug and ‘yeah that sounds cool, bring it on!’

I'll just say that it doesn't confirm anything, it's just merely used as an example.

[SuperJack]

Say you want to rob an NPC. You will need a way to search his inventory. Same with other players, So many times you can rob a person, but the only way to find out what they really have is to kill them.

 

So they add in searching inventorys, you think everyone is going to willingly stand there whilst you search them? There should be a way to hold them down. It will be so much easier to move a player/npc if you capture them, rarther than have to tell them to walk.

 

What if your getting robbed by npc/player. Are you going to stand there and do exactly what they say whist honesty? Or will they have to physically have to stop you. tie you/restrain you. So they can rob you.

[Rathlord]

Say you want to rob an NPC. You will need a way to search his inventory. Same with other players, So many times you can rob a person, but the only way to find out what they really have is to kill them.

So they add in searching inventorys, you think everyone is going to willingly stand there whilst you search them? There should be a way to hold them down. It will be so much easier to move a player/npc if you capture them, rarther than have to tell them to walk.

What if your getting robbed by npc/player. Are you going to stand there and do exactly what they say whist honesty? Or will they have to physically have to stop you. tie you/restrain you. So they can rob you.

Just like in real life, you can turn and run if that's what you want to do. If they're pointing a gun at you, they can put a bullet in the back of your head.

You claim you want this for realism's sake, but that's not true. What you're proposing is less realistic and plainly bad game design.

They'll obviously need an inventory searching interface, but that's not that hard since they'll be making a trading window.

[Viceroy]

Hands up!

 

That's pretty much what I'd like. The ability to rob (NPC's and People) without murder. Combined with the ability to lock doors. People can do the rest. None of this "You have been taken prisoner by loltit55" and then not being able to run away.

 

SS13 had nice captivity mechanics where you could ALWAYS break out given you had enough grit and steely balls.

[Rathlord]

I have a feeling that when they mentioned hostage taking in the new animations that meant things like putting your hands up animation, not a system to forcibly take control from the player. I'm obviously not a dev so I can't say either way, but that's my general impression.

[deprav]

There are many reasons to take someone as an hostage :

- asking for a ransom (supplies from his/her group)
- forcing him to lead you somewhere
- forcing him to give you informations
- an "insurance" in a tricky situation
- saving him, but you don't thrust him at first
- avoiding to kill the guy
- sadism
- cannibalism
- making living bait for Zeds
- and much more...

But one thing is sure, if I were to take an hostage, I'd probably tie his hands behind his back so he can't grab anything and wound me (or kill me), or runaway and give my location.
So yeah, I'm 100% for hostage taking, it has the potential to create some awesome RP situations, and I agree it shouldn't take control away from the player ; but hands-tying (twine, rope, plastic thingies) is like the most basic thing and the hostage can still move and use his/her legs to run away and get rid of his bounds further away (with a sharp tool, or a stone, or a piece of broken glass).

[Impetiso]

Before discussing anymore if you like/dislike the idea of hostage taking, there are some things that need to be clarified:

1- How do you take a hostage? Before anything, the fact of how do you take a hostage should be perfectly clear. Do you just point him with your firearm or you could use melee as well? Do you grab him like a human shield or just take some distance (like 1-2 meters)? Are you going to tie, knock out or nothing at all? and if you tie, how are you going to do it?. 

2- Why do you want taking hostage that way to be in the game? "Because it's realistic" is not a valid answer. There are a lot of things that are realistic and they won't be in the game. If you want it because there isn't another way to do something, then that's a great idea.

 

I'm not saying I don't like the idea, but i'm seeing how different ideas of taking hostage are mixing without making something clear.

[DoctahWong]

If it happens, I can't wait; it's going to be the BEST feature added in the game! Better than NPC's

 

 

Think about the features, hand-cuffing a player then forcing them to eat a rotten banana and force drink Mountain Dew all the time!

[deprav]

Before discussing anymore if you like/dislike the idea of hostage taking, there are some things that need to be clarified:

1- How do you take a hostage? Before anything, the fact of how do you take a hostage should be perfectly clear. Do you just point him with your firearm or you could use melee as well? Do you grab him like a human shield or just take some distance (like 1-2 meters)? Are you going to tie, knock out or nothing at all? and if you tie, how are you going to do it?. 

2- Why do you want taking hostage that way to be in the game? "Because it's realistic" is not a valid answer. There are a lot of things that are realistic and they won't be in the game. If you want it because there isn't another way to do something, then that's a great idea.

 

I'm not saying I don't like the idea, but i'm seeing how different ideas of taking hostage are mixing without making something clear.

The thing is, ultimately, only the devs will choose how & why, and I'm pretty sure they already have their ideas about it (and hostage situation will be in.) But for now, all we can do is guessing how & why from what we know of the dev's desires, and directions they want to push their game toward.

They want a post-apocalyptic life simulator with zombies, and in such environment implying moral dilemmas, quest for remnant of humanity, fighting for ressources & surviving etc... hostage situations are very likely to happen (as said in my previous post).

We also know the devs don't want to take control away from the players, so players don't become spectators of their own game/character. (even if they'll probably have to concede at a certain point when implementing sleeping back in Multiplayer, and being inconscious).

Role playing being an important aspect of the game, we can also guess that hostage taking WON'T BE a painful game mechanic such as "right click on character > take hostage" and then the other dude can't move anymore. I'm pretty sure it will have to be explicitly said by the hostage taker (like "FREEZE F**KER ! PUT YOUR WEAPON ON DA GRAOUND!", or "If you move one step away, I'll blow your head off...") and then the hostage have the choice to answer or react the way he wants to : it could become a fight, a shoot-out, he could run away and get shot in the back, or run away succesfuly, or follow the orders to preserve his character's life, maybe give his group away, or waiting for the right moment to escape or kill the dude with the gun, or just get knocked the f**k out and dragged somewhere else etc...

For what it's worth, you can pretty much take hostages already, but it misses some game mechanics like frisking (looking into the hostage's inventory), door locking (you can still barricade tho), a way to limit the threat the hostage represents (hands-tying), and knocking someone inconscious.

But nothing keeps you from forcing someone to drop all his inventory on the ground and go into a room that you'll barricade, if you have something to force him with.

[EnigmaGrey]

I can't even....... what......

 

http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/108-forum-rules/

 

btw i'm talking to the maker of the thread FYI

Not sure what your point is in this thread, but maybe using the report function to make it privately might be a better idea in the future.

You know, to prevent misunderstandings.

[Jatta Pake]

I agree with Viceroy and deprav that you wouldn't want a "right click on character > take hostage" type of mechanic.  I think you would want player victims to consent to the scenario.  I could see two player options that a player victim could initiate:

 

Consent - A player choosing this option allows his inventory to be searched and any items removed by any adjacent character. Character animation would be a "hands up" animation. This is de-activated by any move by the character or any switch to combat stance.

How this would work: Player Rath pulls gun on Player Twiggy and shouts "Freeze!" Player Twiggy decides to do as he's told and clicks on a button to Consent. Twiggy's character throws up empty hands and any equipped items immediately go into his primary container.  Rath walks up and right clicks "Search Character" which opens Twiggy's containers.  If Twiggy decided to make a run for it at this point, the container would close for Rath and everything would be back to normal.  Otherwise, as long as Twiggy was prone, Rath could loot to his heart's content.

Why this is a good system: As bad as being mugged is, it's still preferable to death. The victim gets to make an affirmative choice to allow the search. This is also a mechanic that could be leveraged for "frisking" players.  If Rath was a guard, he could search Twiggy for weapons before allowing Twiggy to enter the safe zone.

Surrender - A player choosing this option allows his character to be incapacitated by another character. This would also be de-activated by any move by the character or any switch to combat stance prior to being bound up.

How this would work: Similar to clicking on Consent, a player victim like Twiggy could click Surrender. This would allow Player Rath to come up and use his rope or handcuffs to bind Twiggy's hands, feet, or both. If hands are bound, no items can be equipped in the hands and no attacks made. If feet are bound, the character cannot move.  It would take another character or item to remove the constraints.

Why this is a good system: This keeps two different levels of capitulation separate. Someone might Consent to being searched and/or robbed, but not to being taken captive.  Given these two modes, it can reduce player vs. player violence.  A consenting victim knows they cannot be taken captive with Consent while a robber can offer the victim a safer alternative than demanding the victim fully Surrender.  Mugging someone and taking someone hostage are two different things. Characters are far more likely to resist being taken captive than being searched.

 

I see the Surrender option functioning more as a roleplay and NPC thing. The reality is that any player Surrender to another player would essentially be a death sentence outside of roleplay.  You would have far better chances making a break for it.  If the victim was bound up and left in the road, he or she would be helpless against the zombies. If the victim was thrown into a prison, the attacker would require a lot of effort to keep the victim alive - the victim would need regular water and food which is likely in short supply.  If the attacker simply logged off without providing these items, the victim would die.

 

Lastly, I do NOT think a "Knock Unconscious" option should be included in the game.  In movies, you can smash someone over the head with a plumber's wrench to knock someone out. In reality this would more than likely kill a person or inflict enough brain damage that they would leave the victim in a permanent vegetative state. Chloroform and other knock out gasses just aren't realistic either for the "Average Joe".  They are great plot devices but wholly unrealistic chemicals for the Average Joe to have access to.  Additionally, they remove player choice from the game for the victim, which usually isn't good game design.