"Shitty week for Video games"

[Spaniard]

 

There's been a strong backlash against the "beauty" culture, claiming that women like this are bad rolemodels and that beauty is shallow and meaningless.

When people bash the beauty culture, they're not bashing the idea of beauty. It's not like there are people who don't appreciate beauty. However, the problem with the "beauty culture", is that there's one prescribed formula of beauty and it's shoved down people's throats like some cynical marketing scheme. It's really a matter of style and so many games lack style and there are often times, to me, not very attractive female characters. They're often the same two archetypes and it does get boring. The same could be said for male protagonists in games, but it's much more pronounced with females. I don't think anyone can care argue against the objectification of females in media . . . .

 

There's no justification for these depictions but it can only get better with time. I see everyone's reaction to this debacle as ramifications of our patriarchal societies. There are a lot of prejudice people out there who are threatened by different opinions.

[Rathlord]

There's been a strong backlash against the "beauty" culture, claiming that women like this are bad rolemodels and that beauty is shallow and meaningless.

When people bash the beauty culture, they're not bashing the idea of beauty. It's not like there are people who don't appreciate beauty. However, the problem with the "beauty culture", is that there's one prescribed formula of beauty and it's shoved down people's throats like some cynical marketing scheme. It's really a matter of style and so many games lack style and there are often times, to me, not very attractive female characters. They're often the same two archetypes and it does get boring. The same could be said for male protagonists in games, but it's much more pronounced with females. I don't think anyone can care argue against the objectification of females in media . . . .

There's no justification for these depictions but it can only get better with time. I see everyone's reaction to this debacle as ramifications of our patriarchal societies. There are a lot of prejudice people out there who are threatened by different opinions.

I can respect your opinion on that, but I don't agree with it entirely. There is a large group of people out there who say "X woman in Y game is extremely beautiful and thus this game is objectifying women." You can find that viewpoint presented by many, many people and I disagree that their conclusion is justified without any further proof. If you want to say, for instance, that "Leisure Suit Larry" objectifies women, hell yes. You're right. But I have encountered and even know people who will say things like "Tifa from Final Fantasy has large breasts and a trim waist, this is objectifying women." It's those judgements I find reprehensible. Especially true when people haven't played the games (Tifa is, in many ways, a very empowered woman in gaming, fighting with her fists like a badass). I don't mind valid criticisms of the video game industry (dead or alive beach volleyball games for instance), but there's a lot of very hurtful opinions about games that aren't true as well.

[Kitt Frostpaws]

So someone sent me this earlier today and I have something I want to point out about this:

The amount of time and people it would take to find and

 

follow the youtubers in question would be pointless for a number of reasons, namely (if I'm not mistaken on this) the fact that allot of gaming youtube personalities go to PAX and meet fans/attend to panels/partake in events and what-not, so really how would they be possibly tied in with an 'assault' on someone? Even if they were just 'mentioned during supposed attack', how would you know that this would directly tie to them? 

 

Not to mention, there's the question of whether or not the person posting this is legitimate or just someone posting it to stir shit up, the guy posting it on twitter could easily just have been the OP of the original thread and screen-shotted it to spread it around even more couldn't he? I mean, it is the internet and that does bring the whole anonymously posting stuff, so what's really stopping him from trying to stir shit up?

 

Anything thoughts on this? Figured it could be relevant.

 

EDIT: How do I keep doing that?!

[Spaniard]

There is a large group of people out there who say "X woman in Y game is extremely beautiful and thus this game is objectifying women."

 

Who says this? It's the fact that women, who are beautiful in a multitude of ways, are pretty much exclusively eye candy for most games.

 

Another problem arises from the fact that only few types of women are shown in a majority of games. And that doesn't mean any games that have these archetypes are suddenly bad games but it's old. The market's changing and this simplistic, narrow, view of what makes a beautiful woman is trite. It's something developers must be cognizant of for computer games to reach their potential and keep improving. It'll be better for the artistic and aesthetic appeal of the game. It has nothing to do with beautiful women being frowned upon, which is an absurd statement that detracts from the actual argument of this whole debacle.

[Kirrus]

...Not to mention, there's the question of whether or not the person posting this is legitimate or just someone posting it to stir shit up, the guy posting it on twitter could easily just have been the OP of the original thread and screen-shotted it to spread it around even more couldn't he? ...

 

Technically, yes, that is possible, that Zoe Quinn posted it to reddit herself. Realistically, as someone currently suffering from the worst shit-storm anyone could ever endure, it's quite unlikely. Even considering of her, you're doing *exactly* what the person who posted it wants you to do. See, her being hacked, and then being accused of 'hacking herself', or doxxing herself, which when looked at dispassionately just seems illogical. Who'd want to expose their family and friends to aforementioned shit-storm?

[Kitt Frostpaws]

 

There is a large group of people out there who say "X woman in Y game is extremely beautiful and thus this game is objectifying women."

 

Who says this? It's the fact that women, who are beautiful in a multitude of ways, are pretty much exclusively eye candy for most games.

 

Another problem arises from the fact that only few types of women are shown in a majority of games. And that doesn't mean any games that have these archetypes are suddenly bad games but it's old. The market's changing and this simplistic, narrow, view of what makes a beautiful woman is trite. It's something developers must be cognizant of for computer games to reach their potential and keep improving. It'll be better for the artistic and aesthetic appeal of the game. It has nothing to do with beautiful women being frowned upon, which is an absurd statement that detracts from the actual argument of this whole debacle.

 

 

I must ask, if a woman has a beautiful appeal why does that automatically cancel out the idea that the person might be intelligent or independent why does it instantly make them a 'marketing ploy'? I mean, I'm not going to get into the whole thing as you're right, this is getting a little bit closer to coming off the rails, but I find this image kind of sums up how I feel about this subject. sometimes.

 

 

 

 

...Not to mention, there's the question of whether or not the person posting this is legitimate or just someone posting it to stir shit up, the guy posting it on twitter could easily just have been the OP of the original thread and screen-shotted it to spread it around even more couldn't he? ...

 

Technically, yes, that is possible, that Zoe Quinn posted it to reddit herself. Realistically, as someone currently suffering from the worst shit-storm anyone could ever endure, it's quite unlikely. Even considering of her, you're doing *exactly* what the person who posted it wants you to do. See, her being hacked, and then being accused of 'hacking herself', or doxxing herself, which when looked at dispassionately just seems illogical. Who'd want to expose their family and friends to aforementioned shit-storm?

 

 

In truth I don't really see what she would have to grain from posting that on Reddit, unless it was to gather some kind of 'woe is me' appeal, but even then - It's like you said why'd you want to expose family to that kind of thing.

 

EDIT:

Also, I wasn't trying to imply it was Zoe herself who posted that.

[Rathlord]

are pretty much exclusively eye candy for most games.

This exact broad stroke generalization is the kind of statement I have a huge problem with. It doesn't seem like you're interested in a calm debate, though, since you're already calling my opinion absurd. I'm not going to further discuss this with you. Cheers.

[Spaniard]

I must ask, if a woman has a beautiful appeal why does that automatically cancel out the idea that the person might be intelligent or independent why does it instantly make them a 'marketing ploy'?

 

 

They are not mutually exclusive things . . . . It just so happens that women are objectified in a lot of media, games included, for the sake of earning extra cash.

 

 

This exact broad stroke generalization is the kind of statement I have a huge problem with. It doesn't seem like you're interested in a calm debate, though, since you're already calling my opinion absurd. I'm not going to further discuss this with you. Cheers.

I did not call your opinion absurd, I called anyone thinking that "beautiful females = sexism" absurd. And, I think it's pointless to worry about every crazy thing someone might utter because that is a never ending battle. The depiction of female sexuality and beauty is a much more fruitful and meaningful debate. So again, no one with any credibility is arguing that women can't be beautiful in games. People are arguing against how homogeneous most female characters are made in games.

 

Stating that females are objectified in popular culture is not a bad generalization to make considering it's true for a lot of games. Are there exceptions? Sure, but the point is that there are enough narrowly portrayed women to create frustration and anger. People are tired of seeing the same archetypes over and over again. It's completely obtuse to pretend that people who are discontent with the portrayal of females in most video games are just exaggerating. Video games are a product of culture and most cultures are part of a patriarchal society. Any suggestion that this isn't true, or just a minor problem, is frivolous. Video games aren't some magical product void of any racial and gender prejudices; prejudices that permeate many mediums of art, and these moments of prejudice should be talked about, instead of pretending the status quo is okay.

[Connall]

Thread locked

 

The padlock fits nicely on this thread. Good discussion guys, but I'm afraid it must end here.