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Crafting ammo


Troblin

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Crafting ammo - get some scrap brass, use some clay to get a mold for a bullet casing and start crafting fine bullets on your first day!!! Kidding. Could not hold myself.

 

Spent time talking to my grandparents who spent youth with access to hunting and then some WW2 shooting and they told me that bullets are generally reusable. Each bullet casing can be refilled several times before it gets completely deformed and dangerous to use. While an average Joe would not be able to recreate metal jacket on AR bullets, he could craft inferior munitions from used casings. At top skills he could craft ammo better suited to damaging zombies than the well made but anti-mammal industrial grade ammo, including but not limited to using steel pieces enveloped in lead for barrel preservation, manually made hollow points etc. Biggest problem is detonation capsules - crafting them or getting them from shop leftovers. While I know hunting shops closer to nature that currently feature these parts on sale, but cannot confirm availability of them in Kentucky or craftability from available chemicals by average Joe even after reading a book. Adressing any people who like this idea to add ideas and those who don't like this idea to be precise and mention not only that it sucks but why exactly. Ah an yep, to avoid extra data of each individual casing durability, getting a used casing after a shot could be % based occurance, depending on mighty RNG, panic status, number of zombies within 5 meters, number of seconds after last melee interaction, number of meters walked in last 5 seconds, character perks and traits relating to morale and gun expertise.

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Thanks for a mod link, nice mod, but there's a suspicion that you tossed it in after seing the subject title without reading the post. Because just crafting ammo is a bit too easy for this game's setting.

if I read a little, choosing to suggest you looked mod to work as the manufacture of ammunition employment

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this is a somewhat divisive subject, many agree and many others disagree on the practicality of it, the possibility of the true Average Joe being able to do it without serious negative consequences and many other little things. sometimes its best to just use the search feature and add your thoughts on a pre existing thread so you can read what others arguments have been.

 

http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/4797-crafting-ammo

http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/4634-reloading-benches

http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/10025-casting-bullets

http://theindiestone.com/forums/index.php/topic/9537-handloadingreloading-make-your-own-ammo

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No, just no. Crafting reloading components is something even experienced reloaders can forget.

 

Lead bullets for slow moving calibers like 9mm: Casting not too difficult and resizing them.

Jacketed bullets for fast moving calibers like 223/308: Forget it, requires proper materials and stuffing press etc etc etc.

Primers: Even if you find the chemicals, the likelyhood of you blowing away your fingers are bigger than finding the chemicals.

 

The mod I made are a realistic way that even n00bs could learn irl.

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Thanks for answering.

Err_Title - got your point.

Rausheim, got your point too. Although to a degree - my granddad used to reload used shotgun cartridges with ready made primers and powder when he was thirteen and he manually adjusted smg ammunition to dumdum type with just a knife when he was 18. Here comes a question - are city grown adults of the information age really more daft than a village youth of previous age and unable to do even minor ammo modifications?

 

Now to clarify - I'm not arguing, because all this buzz with reusable ammo adds extra scripting whereas if it was just the number of ammo that needed raising - they'd just have to adjust drop a tiny bit. Naw, we're talking atmosphere and variety here, and to that extent wouldn't that be natural for a post apocalyptic scavenger to try to reuse ammo, even at lower efficiency and maybe even a small risk of trauma, trying to save up all available gear to prolong survival?

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Reloading is not difficult, but creating primers and such from scratch is something you can forget.

 

The method of making a x in a bullet thinking it will expand (please don't use words like dumdum, it's called expanding bullet, the type used for hunting big game) will only make the point of impact move, and doing this on a typical smg round like 9mm or even 45, have no practical use. I've tested this.

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Well given that the game has a gun shop which, unless gun shops are set up differently in the states, would have a press, primers and powders. Most presses also measure the amount of powder required, so it's not really that difficult.

There does seems to be a bit of a mind set on this forum that anythin more then duct taping a knife to a stick, or putting a nail through some wood, is out of the reach of the common man.

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Only way I can see reloading ammo ever being a thing in-game is for reloading shotgun shells or 40mm grenade casings (read a while back that target shooting with 40mm concrete slugs is fun and legal. Who knew?). The casings are bigger and the tolerances less tight in the weapons that use them, so if you cock something up, odds are it won't be -too- catastrophic.

 

But that's a good point brought up. The primer. It conceivable that scavenging complex/difficult-to-make components like primers and cordite/black powder would be the order of the day. That way you're still limited to looting gun stores, survivalist ammo dumps, houses, etc. rather than pulling the ammo out of thin air. As an added side effect, particularly for the shotgun rounds, you could make your own ammo loads from existing ammunition. I'm picturing an ad-hoc grenade/grappling hook launcher made from some butchered shells and a shotgun unlikely to break if you abuse it. Bigger/smaller buckshot, slugs, stuff like that.

 

Keep in mind, I have extremely limited experience with firearms in real life. To me, the ability to fiddle with custom ammunition could have a place in Zomboid, Crafting and reloading your own ammunition for all guns from scratch? Hell no. Doing nasty things to a shotgun to make a device that utilises the expanding gas pressure from a shot to propel something long distance, such as a flare or grappling hook? Seems reasonablish. Reloading shotgun rounds when you have access to sturdy hulls, powder and primers? Why not. Hoarding birdshot and lead fishing sinkers to make more damaging rounds? Also seems reasonable.

 

Of course, it goes without saying that using ANY modified/reloaded rounds in a complex weapon such as a semiauto shotgun, pistol, or even a pump action shotgun (as opposed to a double barrel break action) wouldn't be possible, or have catastrophic consequences to the player who did it. In the end it comes down to the player-character being skilled enough to do something, without that something killing them in the process.

 

I dunno. I'm rambling. In short, reloading shotgun rounds from existing supplies of powder, hulls and primers could work and converting shotgun shells to other types (shot --> slug) could work. But that is just my opinion.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzsZsn-DurY

 

Do you really think that you couldn't do that?

Hell no I couldn't do that. Not without someone holding my hand at the same time. Since I wouldn't know where to start. Posting an instruction to something where you're basically tought the subject isn't a valid argument in my opinion. I think that 90% (number from ass) of people wouldn't even think of doing that and wouldn't know the steps without correct teaching material. And not knowing that it's possible, people wouldn't even know to look for the material.

 

The point the OP is making is actually pretty valid and new in my opinion, but I'd still argue that most wouldn't know where to start. Do remember that people suggesting these are more often than not, hobbyists or know people who are, like the grandad in this case. This does not accurately represent the majority or the 'average Joe'. Especially in OP's case, if his grandparent wouldn't have told him how to do it, I don't think we'd be having this conversation.

 

Anyway, I think this topic has been discussed thoroughly enough, so that the devs can make up their own opinions on it.

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I reload several thousand rounds in a month and I would never be done if I did it like that vid.

 

Found a vid of one using one of the same presses as me:

 

I never had anyone to tell me what do do, but, I read up on it. Which is also something I recommend if anyone says "I wanna start reloading" before they go buy stuff.

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Eh. I just tried to find the most simplistic and basic demonstration. It's really just 'clean casing, remove old primer, replace primer, fill round, cap round' rinse repeat. If you found a press, there would be book near by that showed the process. That said I feel that everything is pretty self explanatory, except for the amount of powder, which would be pretty easy to figure out thro trial and error (starting small and working up of course)

Eh. I just tried to find the most simplistic and basic demonstration. It's really just 'clean casing, remove old primer, replace primer, fill round, cap round' rinse repeat. If you found a press, there would be book near by that showed the process. That said I feel that everything is pretty self explanatory, except for the amount of powder, which would be pretty easy to figure out (in a survival situation) thro trial and error (starting small and working up of course)

I also don't think it would be that big of a reach to think that someone is a zed situation would make the connection of 'I need more ammo for my gun, I wonder how they make it, I'll raid a gun shop and see how they do it, oh there's a book on it'

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This is the easiest press to use for a rookie, the one i linked to. The one you found are too advanced for a rookie.

 

Trial and error in reloading = The loss of fingers, sight, hands and possible life.

 

Too little powder: Bullet will get stuck in barrel and/or you can actually implode the casing (in rifles). Thats why in reloading charts they always have something called a "starting load".

Too much powder: Kaboom and not in a good way.

 

This is how you do it in real life:

If using water for cleansing: De-cap primer. In the water using citric acid and/or a really good soap that "eats" carbon.

If using tumbler for cleansing: Throw the empty brass into the tumbler. De-capping is done the same time when resizing and priming.

You can skip cleaning the brass, as long as they're dry and do not contain foreign objects. Would not recommend this for ammo not going to be used that week or something that is supposed to go sub moa at 100 yards

 

Now the reloading.

You de-cap, re-size and prime the casing - This is what the re-sizing and de-capping die is for.

(If handgun or straightwalled casings) You use an expander die to open the case mouth just a bit.

Now you fill the case with the appropriate powder.

Then you use a seater die to seat the bullet. Now you have a finished bullet.

 

All of the dies has to be adjusted correctly or else you will wreck the casing, possibly the gun and even the dies.

 

And you do a lot of bullets at a time, so you don't have to adjust the dies each time you change them in the press.

 

I'm not trying to be a hard-ass, but when people start to discuss reloading and using wrong information, both the reloader and the instructor in me wakes up.

 

Everything is explained properly in a reloading manual. And a reloading manual with respect for it self will state in each section "this is extremely dangerous and even a slight fuck up, will blow your fingers away. At a best scenario".

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Checked post after awhile. Grand feeling when comments outsmart and outdevelop the OP subject - one extra idea tossed in for consideration - considering this at least as an ability of one of the PC/NPC backgrounds/traits, since there's that double notion of being both simple to do after just watching "tales of a gun" series or really hard and scary trial and error without that minimalistic amount of education.

 

P.S. and yes, minimalistic education relates to shotgun shells which have a bit of flexibility or reload without skills, while anything that needs a reloading bench can be considered only after there's a dedicated perk or a skill with levels to it, trained by shotgun shells at first.

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  • 7 months later...

I know this is an old topic, but with the new addition of occupations, I felt like this badly needs a revisit.  Under the old "average Joe" rules, yes, reloading shotgun shells and bullets is a big NO.  

 

BUT, since we have a hunter occupation (btw, don't get me started on calling that a "occupations", most hunters I know have day jobs, I'm a white-collar office jockey and I still hunt regularly), it seems only natural that they'd know how to reload shotgun shells at a minimum.  Anyone that hunts regularly, whether it's duck, deer, clay pigeons or even paper zombie targets; after a while, reloading just makes financial sense.  A 15 minute Youtube video and a Lyman's reloading book is all you need to get started, and I'd figure you could find that book at the shooting range or gun store.  Smokeless powder and lead shot could be found at the same locations.  I know coding for shells and casings lying around on the ground would be problematic, but I think it's been mentioned that for every shot, there's a chance that a casing could be "recovered".  That way as you shoot, it would simulate picking up the empty shells/casings.  

 

Just throwing this out there, feel free to thumbs up or pick apart.  Maybe as specialized recipes get added to occupations, this could be one of those things that hunters know how to do at the start, maybe have a reloading press in the house that you start in (since it's supposed to be your own).

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Here comes a question - are city grown adults of the information age really more daft than a village youth of previous age and unable to do even minor ammo modifications?

 

Yes. They are.  They don't learn these things because they don't need too.  On a farm 50 years ago he would have needed to know how to do this.  Otherwise animals would eat his livestock.  City people like us are too lazy to amass that kind of information.

 

Just think, 85% of Americans don't know the dance moves to the national anthem1.  And most can't name the states.  They also unwittingly commit on average, three felonies a day, think that speed limits are a recommendation, and don't realize that yes, Texas does have the best barbecue.   We aren't as smart as we like to think.

 

 

1:That was a joke!

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With the new profession system in the works I could see this as something that'd be accessible, now. A police officer might know how. An avid hunter might know how. A shooting hobbyist might know how.

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Crafting ammo would be balanced IMO, even if you had 4000 shots for your shotgun, you'd be attracting alot of attention.

 

Not to mention if we're talking about scaving the resources it also means more weight, and time spent into maintaining a gun build.

 

It'd be interesting to see IMO.

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