Marco1

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Tried in a saved game (started with  41.24):
- tried to build a log wall with logs in backpack, it's not possible anymore. I have to place them on the ground first now;
- tried to add gas to generator from gas can in backpack, can't anymore.
 
Assuming it was intentional I personally don't like that when you drop similar items they're all scattered, I prefer them piled like it was before.

Tried in a saved game (started with  41.24):
- tried to build a log wall with logs in backpack, it's not possible anymore. I have to place them on the ground first now;
- tried to add gas to generator from gas can in backpack, can't anymore.
 
Assuming it was intentional I personally don't like that when you drop similar items they're all scattered, I prefer them piled like it was before.

I noticed it doesn't show body/container content when you are in front/close to it, always floor first and you have to click every time to see what's inside.

I noticed it doesn't show body/container content when you are in front/close to it, always floor first and you have to click every time to see what's inside.

I noticed it doesn't show body/container content when you are in front/close to it, always floor first and you have to click every time to see what's inside.

I noticed it doesn't show body/container content when you are in front/close to it, always floor first and you have to click every time to see what's inside.

Yes, no street lights also.
 
I think it's annoying but...bearable.
The fact you can't see your character behind a wall or under a roof sometimes, well, that makes it unplayable for me instead.
Don't mind bugs, I expect them being there in IWBUMS, found some in the past, it's ok, game was still ok as a whole, but this one is, as I said, a bit too much.

Yes, no street lights also.
 
I think it's annoying but...bearable.
The fact you can't see your character behind a wall or under a roof sometimes, well, that makes it unplayable for me instead.
Don't mind bugs, I expect them being there in IWBUMS, found some in the past, it's ok, game was still ok as a whole, but this one is, as I said, a bit too much.

Anyone else notice the lights are being weird?
 
I'll go to sleep with the lights on, wake up and all the lights/lamps have turned themselves off. Also, if I go out looting and leave a light on for when I return. Come back a few ingame hours later, the lights have turned off.
 
I'm playing on Mac but am at work at the moment so can't post specs or anything until later.

Not that I don't want to reply to you guys (Teesee, Butter Bot and Blasted_Taco), but I think it would be a waste of time for all of us.
 
I wrote all I had to say in my first post, if you didn't get what I mean or you disagree, well...good to know.
In the second one I tried to explain my point a bit more, but didn't work well, I guess.
Let me just say, it's not what I want, it's what I think devs should consider instead of dragging this longer than necessary.
It's not about my expectations, but...expectations. If you expect nothing or very little, if you think EA is like throwing money at people because you can, well, good for you.
If you think it took three years to DEVS to go from point A to point B and you understand there's a long way (considering what this game is still missing) ahead of them, maybe you have, in my opinion, all the right to wonder if you're actually going to play a final version of PZ one day (possibly before 2020).

I think the best option for them would to create tools for modders and leave the game to the community, they should focus on fixing bugs, finishing the "base" of the game and spend/invest the rest of the money they earned  from this and their time in some other field/project (I wouldn't early access for sure). Unless there's still some more to milk from this game. Sorry if I sound rude, that's my personal opinion.
I am sure a bunch of motivated modders would work faster and, I am afraid to say so, would do a better job in general.
 

@EnigmaGrey
I understand your point and you have the right to do your job as a moderator; also I am sure some people crossed the line and I am not here defending that single individual (that insults, or goes against forum rules), I am here to point out what caused the whole thing, what lead someone to give a negative review to PZ (often starting with "I like this game, but...") and (stating the obvious) that it would be wise to avoid all this to even start.  How?
Changing the approach to communication and updates. I am not here to say how, if you, like me, feel something should be changed please do it, if you think everything's fine, mine's just another stupid advice, I'm sure not the first one you read.
The problem is being slow is not bad in itself, Devs may be even fast (and we don't know), however what we can see is the outcome and you can clearly see if changes from, let's say first steam release, "weighs" 3 years (of wait) in gaming industry (let's take an average game), the answer is "WAY NOT", regardless of the team's effort and twists and turns of their lives.
It's not like there's a "special standard" for TIS in gaming industry, you can be slow even if you're doing their best.
Let me add this: every time you take the small team excuse would turn your logic against you so when you say "we're a small team" , well what else would you expect if not "hire help" maybe with a not exactly elegant "instead of buying a new car" or going on vacation; then you read "go coding" when you comment a game you played on steam (I read that somewhere on this forum), like you're not supposed to have a private life...
And I add: let's say I know a lot, what if I know a small team could do it and it's actually just TIS' problem?
Of course it could turn bad, of course it's rude and disrespectful, but where does this start from?
 
Take the whole no ETA drama. Personally, I couldn't care less about when TIS are going to give us a new update, I don't care about the new animations, but it's clear no ETA is just for a "false sense of security" that doesn't hide the truth and I say this with no intentions to insult the Devs and their work.
 
 
Now, to those pointing out it's Early Access, like @Zorak , it's not like people can't read... I'd like to remind them this project is probably only possible in the first place thanks to people that bought this unfinished game hoping to play it as a full game one day and, keep in mind, among them there are even those that gave a negative review; even more important is, in my opinion of course, that many of those negative reviews often start with "I like/love this game, but..." Also, it's really really wrong to apply your view on gaming/life to other's people, first one being (and the list could be very long) the "you just paid X money for X hours of playing that means you played for X money/hour" this is how you value your time and that's your approach to gaming, it's not "universal"  and not a good point at all.
Or take @Teesee missing the point completely. It's Early access then what? What's wrong asking them to deliver? What kind of millionaire are you paying 15 dollars/euro not expecting them to deliver?
EA is not charity, my friend. For the small team thing, read what I wrote to EG, but just to repeat myself "but you knew they were a small team",  doesn't mean anything. How can you tell this could not be done by a small team? How big a team is supposed to be to deliver PZ (let me joke here) before I pass away? Is size of the team the only key component here? And I could go on and on with this kind of questions.
But I understand your good intentions, I really do.
 
 
Some people bought this game, once again, as Early Access to support developers hoping to play PZ as a finished product one day and in my opinion they're not wrong asking for TIS to deliver, if they're rude their fault, but if they are rude after an uninspired reply as "if you're not satisfied go play another game" or a even less helpful "it's EA , duh!", well, I understand them.
 
Now, I am really sorry about the Off-topic and I really hope the best for TIS and PZ. Please try to consider I "wasted" some time to write here not to hate, but to point out that people that often seem not supportive care about this game as much as you do (if not more).
 
Thanks for your time.

@Sick Boy I agree with you, obviously.  However keep in mind a "bad" moderator can make it even worse...
 
It's weird to read about people banned for telling the truth, especially because they were just (most of times, as far as I know) expressing their opinions politely, opinions, however, not in the directions some mods want, that's all. And that's a pity, because I think TIS are way better than that.
Sorry for the off-topic, this should be about this week's mondoid, but at this point...what was this mondoid's about? Buyin' time? I mean, I respect TIS, but let's call things with their names and well...let's move on.
 
I was unfortunately right in my previous posts about the fact that at this pace  this game will never be "complete" (unless, as I said, they'll just give up), but not because it could be moddable to infinity (good thing), but because it will take years (once again, at this pace) to DEVS to deliver tools for modding and a "complete" game to "mod".
 
Sure animations will be great, but when I imagine this same game with different animations and I remember there are so many other things needed, so we'll be back to square one with the next update.
Also, when you analyze all the updates from, let's say, steam release, well...that's not much, and that's a fact. Gameplay wise, not a single change in too many aspects, I don't even want to start about the non-existing end game.
So I understand people in negative steam reviews saying: "I love this game but..." and that's what Mods here (not sure about Devs) seem to not understand (or pretend not to).
You can deny the truth or say the horrible "you didn't pay much for this game, so you should be grateful it starts" (I'm obviously exaggerating here, but you know what I am talking about) or "go play another game if you're not happy", that doesn't change reality and, honestly, that's a pretty bad thing to say if you ask me.
 
You're lucky to have a good community with polite people willing to help and support this project,  believing in your project (more than you do?), somehow some of you manage to make them look like trolls that don't understand simple things.
In what position do you think "we warned you about slow development"  put you?
What's wrong about those paying customers reminding you the game still needs a lot of work every now and then? Often, let's remember, just reminding you what you "promised" a couple of years ago...
About me, well, I think about my crowbar and my crops, they remind me how much this game has changed over the years.
 
It's about being real and honest, if someone complaining is right, just admit it, that's a good start.
I refuse to believe things are like you're doing a favor finishing the game, because we paid only X money and we knew game was early access.
Unless this business has changed so much a finished game is something you should not expect and reminding someone to deliver is being rude.
By the way NO ETA, while I respect that (and in general I don't mind waiting), you're people, you're working, please remember it's a luxury you couldn't afford in a different line of business, well, without consequences on reputation of course, honestly I just consider that "buying time", let me know what you would think of you in "my" position.
 
Personally I would love to read a statement from Devs saying what, in their opinion, we should expect from this game, I mean what we should really expect, what will be its future.
Not saying a roadmap, something similar to this: https://projectzomboid.com/blog/2014/06/march-to-1-0  in terms of goals, because if I read the content... 
What do they think PZ will look like in 2018...And, why not, share with us some details (problems, ideas that never made it or something "interesting"/curious about the development).
It could be a nice Merry Christmas edition of Mondoid, if you like it.
I know there were a couple of post in that style, but I think it's needed now more than ever (my personal opinion)...

@Sick Boy I agree with you, obviously.  However keep in mind a "bad" moderator can make it even worse...
 
It's weird to read about people banned for telling the truth, especially because they were just (most of times, as far as I know) expressing their opinions politely, opinions, however, not in the directions some mods want, that's all. And that's a pity, because I think TIS are way better than that.
Sorry for the off-topic, this should be about this week's mondoid, but at this point...what was this mondoid's about? Buyin' time? I mean, I respect TIS, but let's call things with their names and well...let's move on.
 
I was unfortunately right in my previous posts about the fact that at this pace  this game will never be "complete" (unless, as I said, they'll just give up), but not because it could be moddable to infinity (good thing), but because it will take years (once again, at this pace) to DEVS to deliver tools for modding and a "complete" game to "mod".
 
Sure animations will be great, but when I imagine this same game with different animations and I remember there are so many other things needed, so we'll be back to square one with the next update.
Also, when you analyze all the updates from, let's say, steam release, well...that's not much, and that's a fact. Gameplay wise, not a single change in too many aspects, I don't even want to start about the non-existing end game.
So I understand people in negative steam reviews saying: "I love this game but..." and that's what Mods here (not sure about Devs) seem to not understand (or pretend not to).
You can deny the truth or say the horrible "you didn't pay much for this game, so you should be grateful it starts" (I'm obviously exaggerating here, but you know what I am talking about) or "go play another game if you're not happy", that doesn't change reality and, honestly, that's a pretty bad thing to say if you ask me.
 
You're lucky to have a good community with polite people willing to help and support this project,  believing in your project (more than you do?), somehow some of you manage to make them look like trolls that don't understand simple things.
In what position do you think "we warned you about slow development"  put you?
What's wrong about those paying customers reminding you the game still needs a lot of work every now and then? Often, let's remember, just reminding you what you "promised" a couple of years ago...
About me, well, I think about my crowbar and my crops, they remind me how much this game has changed over the years.
 
It's about being real and honest, if someone complaining is right, just admit it, that's a good start.
I refuse to believe things are like you're doing a favor finishing the game, because we paid only X money and we knew game was early access.
Unless this business has changed so much a finished game is something you should not expect and reminding someone to deliver is being rude.
By the way NO ETA, while I respect that (and in general I don't mind waiting), you're people, you're working, please remember it's a luxury you couldn't afford in a different line of business, well, without consequences on reputation of course, honestly I just consider that "buying time", let me know what you would think of you in "my" position.
 
Personally I would love to read a statement from Devs saying what, in their opinion, we should expect from this game, I mean what we should really expect, what will be its future.
Not saying a roadmap, something similar to this: https://projectzomboid.com/blog/2014/06/march-to-1-0  in terms of goals, because if I read the content... 
What do they think PZ will look like in 2018...And, why not, share with us some details (problems, ideas that never made it or something "interesting"/curious about the development).
It could be a nice Merry Christmas edition of Mondoid, if you like it.
I know there were a couple of post in that style, but I think it's needed now more than ever (my personal opinion)...

@Sick Boy I agree with you, obviously.  However keep in mind a "bad" moderator can make it even worse...
 
It's weird to read about people banned for telling the truth, especially because they were just (most of times, as far as I know) expressing their opinions politely, opinions, however, not in the directions some mods want, that's all. And that's a pity, because I think TIS are way better than that.
Sorry for the off-topic, this should be about this week's mondoid, but at this point...what was this mondoid's about? Buyin' time? I mean, I respect TIS, but let's call things with their names and well...let's move on.
 
I was unfortunately right in my previous posts about the fact that at this pace  this game will never be "complete" (unless, as I said, they'll just give up), but not because it could be moddable to infinity (good thing), but because it will take years (once again, at this pace) to DEVS to deliver tools for modding and a "complete" game to "mod".
 
Sure animations will be great, but when I imagine this same game with different animations and I remember there are so many other things needed, so we'll be back to square one with the next update.
Also, when you analyze all the updates from, let's say, steam release, well...that's not much, and that's a fact. Gameplay wise, not a single change in too many aspects, I don't even want to start about the non-existing end game.
So I understand people in negative steam reviews saying: "I love this game but..." and that's what Mods here (not sure about Devs) seem to not understand (or pretend not to).
You can deny the truth or say the horrible "you didn't pay much for this game, so you should be grateful it starts" (I'm obviously exaggerating here, but you know what I am talking about) or "go play another game if you're not happy", that doesn't change reality and, honestly, that's a pretty bad thing to say if you ask me.
 
You're lucky to have a good community with polite people willing to help and support this project,  believing in your project (more than you do?), somehow some of you manage to make them look like trolls that don't understand simple things.
In what position do you think "we warned you about slow development"  put you?
What's wrong about those paying customers reminding you the game still needs a lot of work every now and then? Often, let's remember, just reminding you what you "promised" a couple of years ago...
About me, well, I think about my crowbar and my crops, they remind me how much this game has changed over the years.
 
It's about being real and honest, if someone complaining is right, just admit it, that's a good start.
I refuse to believe things are like you're doing a favor finishing the game, because we paid only X money and we knew game was early access.
Unless this business has changed so much a finished game is something you should not expect and reminding someone to deliver is being rude.
By the way NO ETA, while I respect that (and in general I don't mind waiting), you're people, you're working, please remember it's a luxury you couldn't afford in a different line of business, well, without consequences on reputation of course, honestly I just consider that "buying time", let me know what you would think of you in "my" position.
 
Personally I would love to read a statement from Devs saying what, in their opinion, we should expect from this game, I mean what we should really expect, what will be its future.
Not saying a roadmap, something similar to this: https://projectzomboid.com/blog/2014/06/march-to-1-0  in terms of goals, because if I read the content... 
What do they think PZ will look like in 2018...And, why not, share with us some details (problems, ideas that never made it or something "interesting"/curious about the development).
It could be a nice Merry Christmas edition of Mondoid, if you like it.
I know there were a couple of post in that style, but I think it's needed now more than ever (my personal opinion)...

Not sure you were replying to me too, or only OP...
In first case:
I obviously have watched all the videos about NPC, I know about that , I read mondoids, all ok.
 
Luckily for me I have no interest in the whole NPC thing, really couldn't care less, of course it would be a nice feature in game, but there are many directions Devs can give to this game (and that's what I like about it) to improve it, with or without NPCs.
I was just trying to be realistic and I will be the first one happy if I am wrong about this...
Honestly I think NPCs should be last thing to add in PZ, when it will be a complete game, not before, that means years and years from today (unless they decide to "drop the ball" at some point or put a ribbon and say "voila' it's complete" as I said in the past in some of my previous post), so even if I was a fan of NPCs, I would be ready to wait for them.
I am sure they could manage to create a working NPC , no doubts about that, but I play PZ a lot (A LOT), please allow me to be skeptical about the final result, that is all I care about.
One thing is to tell them to "do the trick", another one is, for example to make them survive in the long run, and more importantly, in what way, always keeping in mind how the game works and deals with part of maps we are not in, for example; not to mention how they will handle the interaction with human player (I fear all that work will result in a shot-them-on-sight or a even worse "you provide for me... you belong to me..." )
 
I can't see how they can succeed in this considering Devs often struggle with easier tasks (and I say that with the utmost respect, I love the game, I like how they take the time to reply to people on forum and listen what players have to say, RJ is the best and really I could make a great list of good things, however this is not a praise post) and in general smart NPCs in gaming are a rare rare kind and I fear at the moment PZ (in my opinion) is not the kind of game they could work well (I always mean decently, no immersion-breaking, etc. etc.).
 
I know I am repeating myself so I don't think another post is needed, just writing to say: I hope I am wrong on this one!
 
 
 
 
 
 

I wouldn't say unprofessional and at this point in my life I appreciate and prefer honesty, especially with an explanation, in this field Devs here are way better than most of the moderators (here or, in general, in other forums) that usually limit themselves to a WAY-MORE-irritating "close topic, because I say so" (one coming to mind right now... )
 
I agree with you NebNebber, I do like PZ and I play it a lot (A Lot!), sometimes I just want tell my opinion and get a rude reply for no reason, so I think I know where you're coming from, but...
Maybe next time use something like: 
"Inb4 topic closed because of people complaining about NPCs..."

 
 
Anyway, not only bar is too high, it just can't work the way the vast majority of people expects.
In this game a CPU controlled player can't survive and act "smart" (I mean, without "cheating" and not being predictable-repetitive), the kind of planning and quick decision you have to make sometimes is just too much for NPC; of course you can create a NPC character, but you would end with easy exploitable bots or predictable characters to shoot on sight and/or steal from on a regular basis.
It could be an interesting topic for a discussion, personally I prefer no NPC than a dumb, repetitive NPC, after all, I guess nobody wants a CPU player doing the same things or talking saying the same things all the times with 2-3 variations. It could be good in a game with an end, that maybe lasts 2-3-7-8 hours, where you meet a character once /a static NPC) in a specific point of a "Quest", not in a game like PZ where, let's keep in mind, you can play for 10000000+ hours....
Unless they plan to do a : while you were there somewhere else this happened, but that requires to be random or at least different every time and just requires too much work, for something that could end being just frustrating for the player.
 
All this especially considering how zombies move in game and how the game handles the cells you're not in...

Just put rotten food in there and wait (not sure how long, can't recall, must try again with an empty one), at some point you just go there once in a while with a Sack and get the fertilizer (Sack -> Compost Bag) A sack contains 10%, you just go near the box right-click with mouse and select 'get compost' (you'll see how full it is in %); also you can see compost inside (instead of an empty box). I noticed that when it increases you can find worms inside...
With a full Compost Bag you can fertilize 4 times (-20 hours to next growing phase each time) then it's empty again (Compost Bag -> Sack).

Just put rotten food in there and wait (not sure how long, can't recall, must try again with an empty one), at some point you just go there once in a while with a Sack and get the fertilizer (Sack -> Compost Bag) A sack contains 10%, you just go near the box right-click with mouse and select 'get compost' (you'll see how full it is in %); also you can see compost inside (instead of an empty box). I noticed that when it increases you can find worms inside...
With a full Compost Bag you can fertilize 4 times (-20 hours to next growing phase each time) then it's empty again (Compost Bag -> Sack).

Coop not even startable game crashes after loading screen. And yes Zombies are invisible