Rathlord

I'm somewhat guilty of this myself, but I want to mention real quick that if we can just keep the topic for things specific to this build and bugs related to it that'd be awesome. If you're interested in continuing the conversations about starting challenges or cigarettes it would be good to make a new thread for that. Cheers!

The disparity is still good design imo. Neither being injured nor being healthy is a long term "bad" start. They literally just change your starting goals. In my humble opinion you're being a bit too focused on the exact specifics of the start- yes, you are "injured," but all that means is changing your beginning goals. If you take away being healthy, then that's just removing one possible set of early-game goals. You're actually losing diversity, not gaining. But I agree on the whole- there should be lots of different starts, enough that you don't try to reroll for a "good" one. Think of them as "first quests" rather than 'good' or 'bad.' Again, there's no long-term harm in starting off with a zombie in the closet, or a scratched arm, or anything. It's merely an extra goal for the player. I don't agree, but you don't have to apologize for that; disagreeing is good and theoretically leads to a better game in the long run. I'm sorry if you feel you're being "patronized" or "lectured," that's not my intent. I hope you'll read my post again and see that's not the spirit of my post at all. Sincerely apologize if I offended you Kuren. Edit: And as EG mentioned, people min/maxing both their characters and their starts is not something that's preventable. People who care about min/maxing more than gameplay variability will always behave this way, regardless. That's okay- if that's how they/you have fun- more power to them. But that's not really who we're catering to with this stuff.

It should only be on Survival imo, but the game is meant to be challenging and it's meant to thrust you into the midst of a zombie apocalypse. Starting injured does not end your game, all it does is give you a new short term goal to deal with. It's not "being punished," it's just having a harder start. It's not like it changes your long-term run in any way whatsoever. Personally, I think there should be many more of these starting handicaps. You should start hungry, or thirsty, or in a house with zombies in the other room, and many more. And yes, if this were some competitive game or even a mainstream triple A title this might be "bad design," but that's not what we're dealing with here. PZ is meant to be difficult. It's meant to be challenging. It's even meant to be a little unfair. That's the whole point of the thing. It's cool that you went to college for game design, but here's something I learned at college: Context is king. What works for some games doesn't for others, and vice versa. "Taking control away from the player" is probably a phrase you heard a lot, in a negative light. And in most cases, sure that's true, but you needn't take that quite so much to heart. Game design, especially given the massive variations in genre and style, can't just be put into a box with good things in and bad things out. Sorry for the rant, but I feel in a lot of cases what's taught leads to closed minded interpretations, much like teaching writing (which is more my field). Put it into context a little, rather than the knee-jerk reaction that seems prevalent amongst others (not necessarily you). How does this impact your game? 1) You are slightly injured. Your character might not perform as well to begin with 2) You have different early game goals, specifically bandaging and treating your wound 3) Once you've dealt with the wound, it has no impact beyond that Digging down further, what do these three things mean to the player? #1 means maybe being a bit more careful to begin with. You might be less inclined to take a fight if you're already injured. However, #2 means you have a specific goal when you start off, meaning you might have to take some risks you might not. What this all translates to is, the beginning of the game takes a different path than it might normally. Given that the game currently has a fairly standard, well-trodden beginning (find weapon, grab some loot, find somewhere to hole up), this is a much needed change to the early game. And as for point 3- it means this has literally no impact on the mid to late game. Now I'm curious, which of these impacts do people feel effects the player negatively? Which of those things is a bad thing? Sure, it's a "negative" moodle theoretically, but the impact on the player is purely positive. As I said- it should definitely not be in the easy modes, that could certainly be frustrating. But in Survival? I see exactly zero evidence that this is a bad thing in any way. If you disagree, I'd love to see how you feel it impacts the player rather than just "this is bad game design because it's unfair and punishes the player," which is inaccurate and imo untrue for the second part.

Sorry for not getting into the next bit quicker here, I had some... rapid, shitty real life developments this weekend. I'll keep voting open until whatever time tomorrow I wake up (probably 8 AM CST) and/or get to updating. Cast any last minute votes and hopefully expect the update tomorrow assuming my life doesn't implode in the mean time!

Yes, because everyone in real life is completely healthy, not to mention a human being who's already survived at least some portion of a zombie apocalypse It's actually not "beyond ridiculous," it's intentional design. Starting the game the same way every time makes the game more stale. Adding additional starting entropy makes for a more exciting, engaging experience.

Trying to categorize addiction with specifics is a bit of a wasted effort. Addiction is massively dependent on the individual, both chemically and psychologically. Personal anecdotes don't really cut it- if we want to do addiction we'll need to go with generalized figures (preferably confirmed with studies), not individual experiences. We all experience addiction differently.

@blindcoder your are janitor with chemistry hobby. I'll be back for the other questions over my lunch break. Edit: just kidding, barely got a break today. Will get back this afternoon. Will probably close voting tonight in about 9-10 hours from now so bug people who haven't voted on Discord

That would require a commitment to F. She's quite a ways ahead of you after your talk with Dr. Wilson and general slothfulness.

Choosing one choice then the next (or a combination, in some scenarios) is just fine assuming you have enough time for it. In this case, yes- if you want to vote A then E that's just fine!

Staring back at you in the mirror you see your face: Nel, the lowly janitor. You seem almost surprised to see yourself, your short hair bobbing as you let go of the mirror. The other women all have long hair, but you've always liked yours short. Pushing aside the pointless thoughts, you prepare for your day. You slide quickly into your jumpsuit and strap on your toolbelt. On the belt is a variety of small but useful tools: A hefty wrench for tightening or loosening the many water pressure valves that keep the Bathydome working, a small roll of duct tape, a copper pocket watch, and a foamer. Foamers are small spray cans that shoot out a sticky, adhesive gel that quickly expands into a dense and durable foam when it contacts air or water. It's used for many things, but its main use is stopping leaks from destroying the facility. You have one foam canister in your gun and no extras. You could go to the worker's commissary sometime to purchase more. With that in mind, you grab the handful of Reqs and Bits on the table. These coins are what you use to requisition items in the Bathydome. Reqs are used for bigger purchases, whilst Bits are used for smaller items and bartering. There are 8 Bits in a Req. You currently have 2 Reqs and 5 Bits. You also grab your variable bulkhead key. The key is large and appears to be made of brass. It has dull teeth sticking out of the top, bottom, and the two sides. The number of teeth on each side (maximum 4) determine what facilities you can get into. The Bathydome Supervisor has a master key that can unlock additional teeth for keys, and Facility Supervisors for each of the three workgroups can unlock additional teeth for their facilities. Your job takes you all over the Bathydome, so you have low level access to all the facilities. You have 1 military facility teeth, 3 engineering teeth, and 1 science tooth, and 3 worker teeth. You could earn more teeth by working for or gaining the trust of Supervisors. With your daily work gear gathered, you almost walk out of the room before remembering: you almost left your lucky pen knife behind! And while you're there, you also grab a bottle of acidic cleaning solution you made the other day. It's really useful for dissolving tough materials, so you rarely go without it. You tuck the small vial into a soft pocket of your belt. Finally ready for the day, you spin the bulkhead wheel on your door, open it, and step out into the hallway. It's certainly not your first time walking into a corridor of Solipsia, but you're still filled with wonder as lights come on around the facility. Even at this extreme depth, the world outside is beautiful and wondrous. You slowly put your hands up to the glass and peer out. Further along the corridor, the rest of the Bathydome spreads like a spider of glass and steel on the ocean floor, but before you is the sea in all its majesty. Bioluminescent jellyfish leisurely float past, hardy plants sway on the ocean floor, and if you watch for long enough you can sometimes catch glimpses of massive shadows, too far away to discern. Whatever leviathans live in the void, they haven't ever come close enough to the Bathydome to be observed directly. Finally pulling yourself away, you turn to walk towards the central building and almost collide with a dark-haired young lady! You recognize her and say, "Oh! Sorry Kendra!" She keeps walking, but smiles confusedly and waves, replying, "It's okay Nel! And it's Kaila, actually." Oops! Embarrassing! You remember now that Kaila is a junior engineer. You've seen her before, but didn't realize she knew your name. As you're musing to yourself, another woman walks out of her room. You recognize her as Dr. Amanda Wilson, the science Supervisor. Your normally don't rub elbows with supervisors, but she immediately greets you and asks how you are. You tell her that you're fine, and she looks at you inquisitively for a few moments before turning to leave. She pauses for just a moment before saying, over her shoulder, "Stop by the science lab sometime and talk to me. I have something for you." You nod to her and let her go on her way. Checking your pocket watch, you realize that it's later than you thought! You should be working! Luckily, as janitor you often get to work at your own pace unless someone asks you to do something specific. 1) What should you do this morning? A) Go to the cafeteria in the Hub and get breakfast! It is the most important meal of the day, after all! B) Go to the cafeteria and help serve breakfast! It's not usually your job, but the workers always appreciate the help! C) Go to the Military Complex on the south side of the Bathydome. Military often handles their own janitorial work, but they might need something! D) Stay in the Residential Complex. There's a toilet backed up in one of the rooms on the men's wing. E) Go to the Engineering Complex on the east side of the Bathydome. There's a work order out for some damaged water pressure lines there. It requires 4-tooth engineering access, but maybe someone will let you in! F) Go to the Engineering Complex. Kaila went there, and she seems nice! Maybe she'll be your friend if you follow her! G) Go to the Science Complex on the north side of the Bathydrome. Dr. Wilson asked you to come by after all! H) Something else entirely! Go where you want and do what you want! Ask questions if you need help navigating! Wow! That was longer than I expected, sorry guys. They probably won't be this long in general, but I had a lot of stuff to cover and concepts to introduce. Remember to ask questions about anything and everything. Inspect items or Question people or View surroundings. Check knowledge on a subject. Future updates should have more interesting stuff and less concepts. Stuff highlighted in bold is important information to the story or the world that you might want to take note of. I also neglected to name the Bathydome in the first post. It is called Solipsia. Solipsia is the place, the Bathydome is the actual physical facility.

That's uh... no. That's not how bullets work lol

Voting closed! Will edit this message with results shortly.

Well I forgot to close it last night and I'm at work now, so I'll leave voting open about another 8 hours, then I'll wrap it up. I'll try to have the next update this evening (US Timezone).

For what it's worth, Nel (the janitor) is a female name. She's a she

@LeoIvanov and @Keepbro and @Kitt Frostpaws and @Keshash I'll ping you guys once since you mentioned interest in the original thread. You can always jump in later, but I won't bug you guys again!

Voting will wrap up in just a few hours probably!

How about on the farms? Kentucky was/is a major producer. Tobacco doesn't grow itself

You don't see any locks nearby, except the one on your door. It doesn't have have a keyhole, rather it is a standard bulkhead lock. You recall that bulkhead locks are used around the bathydome to secure areas in case of flooding. Some of them take keys, but yours just has a large wheel on the inside that closes it. It's not accessible from the outside when locked. Remember that asking questions and taking actions are a different thing. If you want to take an action, you'll have to get a consensus or at least some support for the idea. I will sometimes allow extra actions that aren't prompted in the scenarios, but you will also have something I like to call "magic turn dust," ie the amount of things you can do in one time period. You may cap out on this some turns and "write-in" actions may not happen. Your gardening may have garnered you some minor knowledge in biology, basic herbal medicine, cooking, and tea-brewing.

No worries. Most of the time the devs have seen them but just not had time to respond. I don't recall which issue was yours (you can link me the post if you want), but if it's not resolved by the next patch bring it to my attention and I'll have another look. Cheers!

I wasn't talking specifically to you. There's been probably 10 people in this thread so far reporting bugs with mods installed. This is why I didn't quote you or mention you or refer to you in any way, lol. If you're not running mods, nothing to worry about.

Other than your work gear (to be determined), you also notice a small pen knife, a hairbrush, an oddly shaped key, and a small jumble of coins.

Welcome! I like your sig about Pandora's Box. Interesting story, that one.

If you have any questions or would like to talk about the game, I'm usually in the Project Zomboid Discord here: https://discordapp.com/invite/0lGvMrCiUWbasJFh You can do @Rathlord there to ping me. I'm always online, but I only check it when I'm not at work, so if you want to bring something to my attention that's the best way. If you're not on the Discord yet, you should be- it's great! Edit: I'll probably try to give at least 24 hours for most votes to make sure people have a chance to jump in. I might give a bit longer for this one since it's the first vote.

As you slowly wake, your brain focuses enough to ask for a moment, 'where am I?' But, banishing the morning's first thought, the gentle swirling of the current outside and the comfortable pitch black remind you that you're safe in your cot. You fumble for a moment in the inky darkness before finding the breaker and flipping it. With a quiet 'whoosh,' water flows into the now-unlocked turbine outside and the globe on the ceiling slowly flickers into life, lighting your small room in its warm glow. Outside, nearby fish dart swiftly away from the sudden light (often spelling danger at this depth), but quickly grow accustomed and go back to their daily troubles. You watch them dart about for a moment, hoping your fuzzy mind will have a few more moments of respite before the troubles of the day come flooding in. It's to no avail, though, so you run your hands through your hair, grit your teeth, and stand up. For a moment you're very dizzy, and your head pounds as if you're hungover. But yesterday was just a normal day in the Bathydome, no reason for you to feel sick. You grab the mirror above your small dresser with both hands and stabilize yourself. Brushing your hair out of your face, you catch a glimpse of yourself in the mirror. 1) Looking into it, you see your face, the face of: A) Dane, the engineer. As an engineer in the Bathydome, you are responsible for the day-to-day running of the facility. You make sure the power stays on and people have oxygen. Every day is an emergency, but it's a challenging and exciting job, requiring both brains and occasionally brawn. You enjoy interesting work, have a wide variety of talents, and rarely complain. B) Shaila, the peacekeeper. As a member of the Bathydome's small police force, you are responsible for keeping the peace and protecting valuable assets. You rarely see any trouble, but you always stay ready for whatever is coming your way- it's your job, after all. You enjoy talking to people, are talented at physical activities, but aren't much good at puzzles. C) Tam, the biologist. As a Bathydome biologist, you are given tasks by your department head on a regular basis to work on and solve. You never know what the projects are for, but you enjoy the work and look forward to your next assignment. You enjoy tough challenges, are good with technology, but dislike manual labor. D) Nel, the janitor. In reality, you do many other jobs than cleaning- whatever needs doing, from wrenching down pipes, to serving food, to moving steel beams for construction. You don't really know how you fit in to Bathydome society, but you do your work steadfastly. Your job takes you all over the Bathydome, and as such your talents are diverse and you're very adaptable. You're shy and a bit of an outsider, and really wish you had a friend. E) Jaina, the Bathydrome Supervisor. As Bathydrome supervisor, you oversee all aspects of day-to-day life and are privy to almost everything that goes on. The entire Bathydrome project depends on you every day, and you won't forget it. F) No write-in votes, but if you'd really like to gender change one of the above that's fine (if you can get a majority vote for it). Your gender won't matter other than how some characters react to you. Your over-all abilities and proficiencies will be identical. As you pull on your clothes, your eye is pulled to the corner of the room where you store your hobby materials. 2) You see: A) A tiny hobby garden, with some precious soil and a few small plants. You've always had a bit of a green thumb and the garden really brightens up your room! B) An instrument (write in instrument of your choice). You have a natural talent for music, although you've not been brave enough to play for an audience yet. C) A small chemistry set. Even if it's not your job, you've always found chemistry fun. You don't make much practical, but you like messing around with neat reactions. D) A chessboard. You don't have a chess partner, but you're looking for one. You find chess a great way to keep your brain sharp. E) A pair of dumbbells. Every day after work you spend a little time lifting weights. It's always good to keep in shape! F) A sketchbook. You love drawing, and have a nice collection of pencils and pens to do it with. Your book is empty right now, but you'll fill it up soon! G) Write in a hobby! Be creative! It can be anything you want as long as it somewhat fits the setting. If you're unsure, ask first! Welcome to Depth, a forum-based choose your own adventure game. The basic format is easy. I will describe a specific scenario, and offer you some ways to resolve it (as per above). If you don't see something you like, you can also write-in your own option. The most popular option is chosen, and leads to the next scenario. You can join the game any time you want to, you don't have to have played from the beginning! You can type as much as you want, but when you're voting please bold your choices. This lets me quickly tally votes when I'm ready. For instance, an example vote for the first scenario would be: 1) D 2) F Depth is an open adventure, where you can do basically whatever you want whenever you want. There is an overarching plot, and it will both continue and have consequences even if you're not participating. You are, of course, limited somewhat by your environment and your skills. Feel free to ask questions about your surroundings at any time. I may or may not answer them. If you're posting a question you want answered, please put it in bold as well. Finally, your character can and will die if you make bad choices for him/her. If you're wondering if the game is based on Bioshock, the answer is- yes and no. I really love the setting of Bioshock, but I've actually never played the games myself. That being said, I have watched quite a bit of them, so you'll probably find little snippets of them here and there, aside from the setting which I've borrowed heavily from. Finally, a couple of tips if you're new to these kinds of games:

We've mentioned this before, but let me remind everyone: if you're reporting bugs in IWBUMS with mods installed and without checking it without mods installed you are wasting the dev's time if you don't tell us beforehand. Please don't make us waste time chasing mod bugs.