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Criminal complaint agains the NATO lead and Russian government


Cdr.Keen

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As always, stay friendly and objective in this topic or it will be closed!

 

Do you think it is possible to start a criminal process agains the NATO lead and the Russian government? For me it looks like, both overshoot their goals because both do not represent the interest of our modern society. We're at 2016, and i think no citizen is interested in a new world war. It's not the generation of "the older" anymore - it's our future and not our past - we got another future.

 

If you look at this forum, we're people from all around the world. We got Europeans and UK ( ;) ), Russian people, Asian, African and even me from planet Mars. There are no borders between us and i like to hold this state.

 

So do you think it is possible to start a vote of no confidence or a criminal complaint agains both governments?

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2 hours ago, Cdr.Keen said:

Europeans and UK

 

Don't remind me, this is another mistake by the "older" generation that the younger ones to come will have to fix for years.

 

EDIT:

As for the main question, I really don't know.. I didn't even know you could make a vote of no confidence against  Nato

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2 hours ago, Cdr.Keen said:

It's not the generation of "the older" anymore - it's our future and not our past - we got another future.


Oh yes, it's the generation of the young, A generation so interested in it's future it only had 36% turnout in something as big as Brexit Referendum. We sure like to complain about people who do get off their ancient asses and vote and a lot though.

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The criminal process is needed only on the U.S. government for the outbreak of all wars of the 20th century and the beginning of the 21st, and primarily for the use of nuclear weapons against the civilian population of Japan in 1945. United States around the world are doing what they want, but the fault why is it always Russia. I'll tell you that. - Time will put everything in its place, and you will be amazed how you blew dust in the eyes and lie to Lily's ears... Evil and deception originate in the offices of the White house. Russia only defends and never in the history of its existence did not start wars and do not infringe on someone else's territory. All who attacked Russia received in the teeth. and it always has been, and always will be. Learn the history, do not watch TV - you are deceived, and a lot of what not to say, but if you say that turn everything on its head, calling black white and white black, especially about Russia and Russian...

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In an idealistic society this could work, but I'm afraid that we live far from such a society, because the presented solution would not work.

To bring two fighting men to stop fighting requires an even bigger man of a neutral stance to pull them apart. That's simplifying things a lot, but if we are to uphold a court over both the NATO lead and Russian government, who is going to pose as the entity that will bring this to life? Who is going to hold a court against such entity when it decides that it wants to start a war for whatever reason? Are we entirely sure that said entity is entirely neutral and isn't biased towards one side?

Politics are quite a difficult topic, and I wouldn't pose as someone who knows them very well at all. But I am confident enough to say that if a solution of this sort had any chance of working, it would've likely been done already. 

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You seem to put too much faith in democracy. Absurdly rich people give millions to others, so they can become a "candidate", all these rigged choices are the only ones that wil get to be known enough to get into power. The media is either controlled by a side who already back up a candidate, or will use their viewers as exchange coin to grab some campaign money. The only choice we have is what puppet you put as the face of a hidden group. Changing this system through vote is pretty much impossible.

 

Now what you suggest is even more impossible, because it involves military power. There is a fight for supremacy for as long as we are humans, only the stronger have any say in that game. You bet US and Russian media (including on the internet) would portray this as an attempt by their enemies to weaken the country, it would be 24h on your face, and sooner or later people would believe. Like the guy who thinks Russia got to be the biggest nation on earth by only defending itself. Or how they think the nazis were a german thing, and the most evil group ever (of course the good guys won, we always do). It's just that the winners write history, and they will always make themselves look good on it.

 

The good and honest people didn't win the war for power, that's the real issue with the legacy given to the people we now blame (this is a very very old issue). I think more people need to realize that if you play any game by the book, you'll lose to someone who cheats, threaten, kidnap, kill and etc. When it's about power, there are no rules.

 

Sorry if I am not optimistic, I don't mean to unmotivate anyone but things are alot more complex than most people think.

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Of course they are.

 

Maybe it's a bit naive, but i really don't care about who started the story or who likes to be the good or bad. But i care about our future, the future of my children, the future of my friends and all other people living here. Maybe i'm a bit too "John Lennon" for this world right now, but i simply hope that the citizens will raise their voice agains war.

 

I really like all of you guys, and i don't like the idea that we have to face off because our governments like so.

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No one wants war...but unfortunately we can't influence the situation... and decide everything without us. and I think it will solve the issue for non-peaceful plane. All this goes... NATO is playing with matches in a gas station. provoke Russia without thinking about the consequences. Forgetting the main rule - do not Wake the sleeping bear.

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I feel the same, it's just that I think alot about this kind of stuff, and I'm only trying to come up with something to help fix local elections. I can't even find a tiny light in that tunnel. If we at least could make the government be actually a choice of the people, they wouldn't be as interested in wars. But they get thousand times more by manipulating governments, than they spend getting people elected or stirring up street riots. Anyway, we always have a choice, I would only go to war to defend against an invasion.

 

Now, on this particular case, I do believe NATO is trying VERY hard to push Russia into the corner to make a mistake, Putin is being very cautious about it though.

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Putin is very careful and deliberate politician. His reputation as a leader state in our country is unprecedented.

You can be sure. Russia will never, under any circumstances, not first strike. We are a country of good. We are for peace.

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I can't say if he is a good person or not, I don't trust ANY leader. He is by far the most competent I have ever seen. His speeches are very well informed, he can debate and humiliate any journalist with his superior knowledge of the subject. If I was paid to screw him on an interview, I would be very worried, the man knows what he is doing. He doesn't make obvious silly mistakes like other leaders. That's why you should be very careful when supporting him, he is too good to be taken lightly. He didn't get into power in such a powerful nation as Russia, by being nice to who opposed him.

 

But from the "fake" medias, those created with an agenda (Fox, CNN, BBC, Reuters, AP, etc), RT is the most realistic when it comes to world events. Their attempts at swaying public opinion are WAAAAY less obvious than the others (the US ones are beyond ridiculous). All of them are entertaining in their attemps though. Often they show up some real good footage of what's going on in the middle east (like Palmyra or the kurds POV).

 

Oh crap, I think I'm hijacking the thread to talk about world politics, I apologise, I get carried on when talking about this. :x

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2 minutes ago, Magusdl said:

[...]

Oh crap, I think I'm hijacking the thread to talk about world politics, I apologise, I get carried on when talking about this. :x

 

Don't worry, it's an open discussion. As long you stay friendly it's ok ;)

 

I saw videos of Russia showing of it's force at military parades. I saw the NATO doing same.

 

I don't care about both, and i don't understand why both governments make such a big thing out of it. Let them play their military games. It just all looks like a neighborhood row. All the ideology behind it is just 1950, not 2016. Most of the values they are fighting for are not matching with the values a modern citizen got today.

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Yes, you are right in many ways and your thoughts in the right direction... :)
Speaking about Putin and the credibility I am aware of what I'm talking about... believe me it is... and I'm not a victim of Putin's propaganda.. I'm a grown man and grew up in the USSR - 1973 year of birth. Managed to see and feel many of our "leaders". They are all brainless idiots compared to Putin. He's a phenomenon for Russia. We really there is an unprecedented fight against corruption, and advanced the people's living standards, greatly reduced crime and much more. Those who do not live in Russia, it is difficult to understand weight. Come to Russia and you will understand what real freedom and democracy, the real truth in Newspapers and media. See our bright and friendly people. Do not believe those who Russian waters and the Russian mud and lies. Tell all your friends about it! Because it's true.

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About the parade from the red square...

This is not a demonstration of power. This is a tribute to the millions who died and the victory of the Nazis. Did our ancestors and we continue this tradition, nothing more.

Show of force - look at the maneuvers of our troops (teachings), action in Syria... that's where the show of force, and this is not all that capable, our troops and not all of what we have. Many do not show

About the TV... - Watch RT - the real truth

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They are not madmen showing who got the tallest steeple. Keeping the petrodollar is of HUGE importance for the US, it artificially values their currency. Lybia wanted to set the value based on gold (so it can't be manipulated), Iraq wanted to use the euro as the only currency you could buy their oil with (instead of dollar-only). Democracies are easy to manipulate but a stuborn dictator needs to be killed. Europe relying on Russia for gas/oil is not good either, they want them depending on the middle east (who are pretty much in Israel/US hands), and Syria did not allow them to pass through their territory. Russia would not allow the US to set them aside so easily, so they intervened in Syria. Now both sides are trying to tell the other "back off" pretty much like the cuban crisis in cold war.

 

Now I wouldn't trust RT that much. They said our government change was a "coup". Last elections she had like 30% of the votes (and I know of a few who voted on her because it was "less bad" than the other), on a country with mandatory voting (Brazil) that means 70% of the adults did NOT want her there. The truth is, a president pretty much everyone hated got replaced by politicians we hated as much or even more. RT makes it look like the people want them back in power, that the brazilians like using red colors of the communists , and not those of our country. I feel disgusted when I see them using their political party's color and banners, while pretending that's a voluntary population protest (while alot of them came in buses paid by the same party). RT has an agenda too, they are good at hiding it but it's noticeable. They just put alot of true stories to get credibility (AP and Reuters too), then mix a bit of their "opinion generator" content along the lines.

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All the right thoughts! I now think what percentage of the truth in other channels and publications... :)
So I say that you have RT is the only channel who can be trusted. Yes, I do not exclude the element of propaganda... and even to do it again and to tell the truth, not even partial. After all, the Us government can use propaganda and in a sophisticated and brazen form, mixed with blatant lies...

 

About Syria... it's very simple... we protect the weak, who asked for help from strong, sorry Kosovo and Iraq were unable to save from the villains of NATO... we then had a very weak President

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6 hours ago, Svarog said:


Oh yes, it's the generation of the young, A generation so interested in it's future it only had 36% turnout in something as big as Brexit Referendum. We sure like to complain about people who do get off their ancient asses and vote and a lot though.

 

Maybe the older generation should do a better job of informing the young, rather than scaremongering on both bloody sides then.

This is the last I'm going to touch on this, because I know for a fact I'll end up getting a warning/day ban for my behaviour.

 

EDIT: Last thing I'm going to say on this, is this single lyric explains why the youth never voted in this referendum.

 

IF you watch the whole thing it'd probably make more sense, but still. 


 

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Russia and the Slavs self-sufficient country with a history of several millennia, we have a huge area and all the natural resources in large quantities, we have everything, we do not need someone else, we evolve, we become stronger and smarter. And this is why we do not like. And it is not now and not yesterday... this continues for many centuries. Western civilization has always attacked Russia. Nothing new came up.

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1 hour ago, Nebula said:

[...]

Western civilization has always attacked Russia. Nothing new came up.

 

But i'm still sure the modern society has learned something from the past: war is just shit. Neither European nor Russian citizens want war. There will be no winner at all, thats the only truth we can trust in. Europe and Russia are like a dipole magnet - without the other pole, one side become useless.

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5 hours ago, Cdr.Keen said:

 

I really like all of you guys, and i don't like the idea that we have to face off because our governments like so.

Probably not a good idea to start politics threads then, It's pretty much guaranteed to stray out of "lovely" territory.

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40 minutes ago, Foulmouth said:

Probably not a good idea to start politics threads then, It's pretty much guaranteed to stray out of "lovely" territory.

 

Not automatically, it's always worth discussing things. Done carefully, with forethought for your words, calm discussion, and being willing to accept you may be wrong, it can be done safely. And has been so far in this thread. We'll step in if we think it's getting over the line. Otherwise, leave the modding to us mods ;)

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1 hour ago, kirrus said:

 

Not automatically, it's always worth discussing things. Done carefully, with forethought for your words, calm discussion, and being willing to accept you may be wrong, it can be done safely. And has been so far in this thread. We'll step in if we think it's getting over the line. Otherwise, leave the modding to us mods ;)

No problem man, apologies for the back seat modding, it's just in 10 years of forums I've never seen that to be true outside of echo chambers.

It's your place and your rules though so I'll stay out of it completely. 

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10 hours ago, Kitt Frostpaws said:

 

Maybe the older generation should do a better job of informing the young, rather than scaremongering on both bloody sides then.

This is the last I'm going to touch on this, because I know for a fact I'll end up getting a warning/day ban for my behaviour.

 

EDIT: Last thing I'm going to say on this, is this single lyric explains why the youth never voted in this referendum.


Or perhaps our entire demo could, you know, give a damn about themselves and their future and educate themselves a bit, it's not the medieval times, everyone can read and better yet, everyone can access a massive wealth of information at will, at any time with a device they have in their pocket for crying out loud and yet the only thing I see most people my age do is scream at the top of their lungs how everything and everyone except for themselves is to blame for all of their problems.
 

I'm 24 myself, I'm not British, I don't live in Britain I don't even really care to ever visit Britain and I've spent a while educating myself on potential consequences of Brexit even took my time to read related parts of some EU treaties. Why? Because I thought it's important to know this stuff, if only because my country is also in the EU and a member potentially leaving is not something insignificant.

 

For something like 2 months, brexit was on the front page of most if not all news sites (Even our local Polish ones!) and social media, I hear British government had ad campaigns on social media aimed for 18-24 demo to motivate them to vote. They had plenty of time and opportunities to read up on what brexit might mean and then all it took would be for them to go to a polling station and put an X in a box. They didn't. So of course it's the old people's fault, let's take their voting rights away because they'll be dead in 10 years so what do they even care.

 

That is all I am willing to say on the subject and also I'll stay away from this thread now (I don't even really know why I felt compelled to post anything here in the first place). Apologies for the Off Topic content of the post above.

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4 hours ago, Svarog said:

[...]

For something like 2 months, brexit was on the front page of most if not all news sites (Even our local Polish ones!) and social media, I hear British government had ad campaigns on social media aimed for 18-24 demo to motivate them to vote. They had plenty of time and opportunities to read up on what brexit might mean and then all it took would be for them to go to a polling station and put an X in a box. They didn't. So of course it's the old people's fault, let's take their voting rights away because they'll be dead in 10 years so what do they even care.

[...]

 

Brexit-demographics.jpg

 

I don't know if it's for real, but it looks like the younger did so. I also talked to my uncle and my cousin - both are residents of the UK and both are unhappy with it.

 

But if you like, we start an other topic to discuss a bit more about it :)

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I thought wars and conflict were already subject to international law? The problem comes into enforcement, and of course, perspective. Everyone tends to view their own as the correct, so it is exceptionally difficult to have an 'objective' view of actions.

 

On the side note, I voted Remain and was bitterly disappointed by the vote. I can't help but feel the Leave votes were driven by a troubling nationalist drive that has emerged over the last decade. Of course, the joke is that negotiations to access the single market might are likely to still involve the free movement of people and payments to the EU, which will leave a whole bunch of voters suddenly aware of what they actually just voted for.

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