single way to make this game difficult

[ModdedTibby]

there have been a couple mods out there that have been floating around that reduce the ability of melee weapons from being able to hit multiple targets knocking them back and if your skills are strong enough and such down to the ground.  Now does that reallly make sense? I feel like if I swing a baseball bat at lets say three zombies all walking closely to each other may way and i land that baseball bat square on the zombie to the left or right. there should be no such domino effect knocking all three back..  No longer can people go easy mode and take on Fifty Zombies with a melee weapon.  Risk Factor x 100

 

I would love to see this as an option at default to the game.

Edited May 20, 2016 by ModdedTibby

[Livio Persemprio]

That plus better grabs and my life is complete

[nasKo]

53 minutes ago, ModdedTibby said:

No longer can people go easy mode and take on more than one zombie with a melee weapon.

 

FTFY

[EnigmaGrey]

I'm totally fine with appropriate weapons having the force to contact more than one target.

[Livio Persemprio]

But it makes the game too easy and on the other hand it is unrealistic. You'd need a bodybuilder to have that much amount of stenght, the weapon of choice does not make all that difference.

Well, actually, now that I think about it, sharp weapons shouldn't stun zombies at all.

I'd love this in survival, since it's meant to be hardcore.

But even more than that I wish for good grabs, if they'd be implemented then it would probably be enough for the game to be more challenging in my opinion

[EnigmaGrey]

Don't really care if it makes it easy, just proposing that it be removed entirely seems misguided. A better proposition would be to simply have diminishing returns . . .
 

You have a bunch of zombies clustered together. You swing at them with a 3 ft chunk of wood/metal. It hits two or three. What's unrealistic here? I can certainly hit more than one object in real life, I've had my fair share of oops moments.

 

And no, it's not like you're stabbing several zombies  with a buffer knife  or kitchen knife simultaneously. It's only a few items, such as the bat and plank that can strike 1-3 zombies at once.

[Livio Persemprio]

That's not quite what I meant though.

About sharp weapons: I was referring to the axe, which is the weapon of the gods, it can actually stun them (not as much as the bat), it's kinda op considering that it can even hit multiple zeds at once on the floor.

 

About blunts: if you hit more than a zombie with a bat, the strength will be minimal at the second impact already, humans aren't that tough, and zombies are still all grown up people. I don't really care about the sense of measure about this one, remove it, reduce it, whatever is fine, I think that some balance here can be done, so I'm fine with simply the idea of reducing this effect instead of removing it

[EnigmaGrey]

A fire axe is a blunt weapon; it's around 3 feet of wood with a heavy, bladed head at the end. There's no reason it shouldn't be  capable of hitting  multiple zombies when swung, just with less effect.

 

I don't really care if it's "OP" in game, as it seems plausible that it'd be rather "OP" in real life, as well.

[Livio Persemprio]

Gameplay should be over realism on certain aspects. In a realistic game we'd have more powerful fire weapons and more common ammo, and that's a confirmed no due to gameplay balance. We'd have zombie camo in a realistic game, that's another no because it wouldn't be balanced.

Fire axe is indeed op, since it's durable, performs better than anything else in terms of critical melee chance (I'm not counting the knife's instakill move, that's a 100% chance and has its own disadvantages), it can stun zombies and it can hit multiple zeds on the ground. I feel like the axe should be powerful, of course, but isn't that a little bit too much?

Edited May 20, 2016 by Livio Persemprio

[EnigmaGrey]

Then balance the axe specifically, rather than call for something to be removed entirely, as the original post of this topic does.

 

For example, assume when the axe hits 2-3 zombies, it's handle may break (lower it's durability on multiple hits).

[CaptKaspar]

Baseball bats and axes are designed to transfer as much energy as possible to the target they are hitting. That is what they are built and designed for.

 

A 3.5-4lb axe head attached to 3 feet of solid hard wood when swung with force has a hell of a lot of energy behind it.

 

To me it is perfectly realistic that when that energy is transferred to a shambling zombie, that the zombie would be knocked off its balance. The zombie could feasibly stumble backwards, stagger to the side, or even fall over. In the process of this happening, it is completely plausible that the zombie may stumble, bump, fall into other zombies and in turn would dislodge them as well.

 

Maybe stop thinking about the weapon hitting 3 zombies, but instead think of it hitting one zombie, who in turns disrupts the other zombies as it stumbles, bumps, falls into them.

 

 

 

 

[CaptKaspar]

39 minutes ago, Livio Persemprio said:

 We'd have zombie camo in a realistic game, that's another no because it wouldn't be balanced.

 What exactly about zombie camo is realistic? I am assuming you are talking about covering yourself in zombie guts/blood/etc?

 

TIS has said that this is confirmed in big bold red letters as a no, that it doesn't fit the lore of their game.

 

It worked in TWD, but Max Brook's Zombie Survival Guide says that it won't. So it is not universally accepted that this 'tactic' would work.

 

I certainly wouldn't want to be the first person to try it!

Edited May 20, 2016 by CaptKaspar

[Livio Persemprio]

But I thought I said already that in don't care about removing this thing for good, I'm not the op.

 

Having a good chance of randomly breaking the axe is annoying, you need axes to build and this strikes me as bad RNG. I'd prefer leaving the durability as it is but nerfing something else, like the staggering (realistic or not, it kinda defeats the purpose of blunt weapons, and then again, I wouldn't be strong enough to stagger three zombies in a single hit).

Perhaps the breaking chance could work if we had the handle and the balde treated as combined items, so that you could just replace the handle

[Livio Persemprio]

4 minutes ago, CaptKaspar said:

 What exactly about zombie camo is realistic? I am assuming you are talking about covering yourself in zombie guts/blood/etc?

 

TIS has said that this is confirmed in big bold red letters as a no, that it doesn't fit the lore of their game.

 

It worked in TWD, but Max Brook's Zombie Survival Guide says that it won't. So it is not universally accepted that this 'tactic' would work.

Welp, it's "kinda" realistic then, it doesn't change the fact that my point is that gameplay wise it wouldn't work.

 

Derp, double post. Sorry

Edited May 20, 2016 by Livio Persemprio

[Trink_Reiniger]

I like realism.

An axe to the face, is an axe to the face, on the other hand an axehead may get stuck in a head, than you are screwed.

I could not decide what to do, so ill let the devs decide, and if i dont like it i change some values.

 

[CaptKaspar]

To nerf the axe, I wouldn't mind seeing it get stuck in a zombie every now and then.

 

An axe definitely does not make a nice clean cut. It's designed to wedge into wood and break it. Not cut it. I've had axes get stuck in wood plenty of times, sometimes on purpose. So an axe getting stuck in a zombie and taking some yanking to get it back out would be plausible to me.

 

A big advantage that a baseball bat would have over an axe.

[Livio Persemprio]

I have to think about this, while it makes sense, I'm not completely sure it wouldn't just be annoying gameplay wise, I really can't tell, perhaps it is the idea I was looking for or perhaps it would be just bad rng

[hunger john]

This is already in the combat overhaul, isn't it? During the preview video all of the attacks locked onto a single zombie.

[Livio Persemprio]

32 minutes ago, hunger john said:

This is already in the combat overhaul, isn't it? During the preview video all of the attacks locked onto a single zombie.

I didn't realize this yet, thanks, indeed that's what it looks like from the footages

[EnigmaGrey]

7 hours ago, hunger john said:

This is already in the combat overhaul, isn't it? During the preview video all of the attacks locked onto a single zombie.

There's no information yet on the proposed combat overhaul. The current animations are based on the same game mechanics as we have now.

[Livio Persemprio]

Yep, in one frame you can see that if you press attack without no target locked, then you'll do a normal swing, but he is in fact right: through the whole preview every single attack is locked to a single zombie, which may not be a definitive answer, but is good food for thought about how could that work in the system we have now

[ModdedTibby]

On 5/20/2016 at 0:56 PM, EnigmaGrey said:

A fire axe is a blunt weapon; it's around 3 feet of wood with a heavy, bladed head at the end. There's no reason it shouldn't be  capable of hitting  multiple zombies when swung, just with less effect.

 

I don't really care if it's "OP" in game, as it seems plausible that it'd be rather "OP" in real life, as well.

Yeah I dont think it would work like bowling here.  If you are standing dead in front of three zombies and swing your weapon, unless this weapon is a lightsaber the impact is going to me on one zombie. Could the zombie fall down? Absolutely.  should the zombie occasionally upon being knocked back into other zombies knock them down from being hit?  Yes.  Should a weapon such as a baseball bat or axe be able to knock a homerun with the swing of the bat and knock down the group chasing him in two swings? Naaaaah.

 

This simple concept alone would force people to live in a more tactical sense.  Forcing it may not be a good option no, however as my OP states adding it as an option for people i think would be a great idea to add to the level of difficulty pushing yourself in SP.  Only a suggestion.

Edited May 22, 2016 by ModdedTibby

[EnigmaGrey]

Alright, glancing blows require a light saber in reality. The Momentum of weapon cannot be carried to multiple targets, as it's the tactical choice.

 

But it certainly isn't realistic.

[Geras]

Just use this mod and you'll be fine  I use it all the time.

 

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=654668978&searchtext=

[RoboMat]

 

I don't understand the problem with the current system.