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Pre-release of Will's dialog lines?


Teesee

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Hi there,

 

I couldn't help but think the translation sub-forum was only for the actual translation work, so feel free to move this topic if you think it doesn't belong here.

 

Simple fact : as the FR translator for PZ, I'm highly anticipating Build 33 and all the broadcasts that will come along with it. We translators already know there will be at least 7 000 lines of chatter to translate, plus what's been announced regarding the Army and also all the Creative Mode functionalities. All of this translation work is probably going to ask for a sheer amount of time and coffe.

 

Simple question : could there be a way to give an "early access" to these lines to translators so they can start working on it before 33 is released?

 

I know this is highly improbable because of the potential leaks it can lead to, and I totally understand it, but I really wanted to ask if anything could be done to avoid having a huge gap between the 33 release and the possibility for foreign players to fully enjoy it in their native tongue.

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I think the current plan is that the build will be released for a couple weeks, allow people to explore what's tucked away in the dialog, then after a couple of weeks the dialog will be released for translators to work on, since once it's release the files will show all the surprises and easter eggs that are nestled in there.

 

I can't source where I know this, because I honestly don't remember but I might be 100% wrong. In any case I don't think the text will be released for translators before hand as personal preference. Again, not 100% so take what I say with a grain of salt.

 

Edit: Turns out I'm right, see replies below.

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Yup, the other guys have pretty much summed up my thoughts really. I'd hope you'd have the files to work on a few weeks into the IWBUMS process maybe?

 

I should also send out a general warning when stuff is made available, however, that when the game goes 1.0 we'll be looking into getting professional localization across the board - just to make sure that it's okay in each language, and due to the sheer quantity of it all. Of course there's every chance that a community translation could prove perfect, but I think it only fair to warn all translators that there's a high chance of their work being usurped one day.

 

I'm not sure of the logistics of such things, I'm not hugely technical, but because of this I think I'd rather community translations were distributed in Workshop mods rather than us bundling it into the actual game.

 

How does that sound Teesee? Happy/sad/outraged? Would really like to hear your thoughts.

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To be honest, my immediate reaction was "To hell with this, what's the point of translating thousands of lines if someone's gonna get paid for it?". But being so dramatic isn't useful :P

 

I understand the choice of asking for a professional localisation. I mean, I'm in charge of the French translation only because I wanted it and I think my English is good enough to do this, but I haven't graduated in anything language-related (basically I'm an engineer working with crops). There WILL be mistake, typos, etc... in community-made translations. If you want to be as professional as you can, you need to go through this.

 

On the other hand, I'd feel really, really disappointed if the work of the whole community was washed away and replaced by something like "translated by XXX / localisation by XXX". So far, the translators' work has most certainly helped your game getting a wider audience, allowing non-English speakers to enjoy it, give you money and spread the fame. Also, I'm not doing this alone. I don't read, translate and then directly put my work online. I ask for my fellow French players' opinion on the translation, spotting typos, making suggestions for better translations... as weird as it may sound, I try to make it as profesionnal as I can, too. I could share a few anecdots about making the translation more practical in-game thanks to the players and their feedback.

 

Another point to account is that we already gave names to some major functionalities. For instance, Creative mode is going to be called "mode Création" ; the challenges have a specific name, too... I can only mention these few examples right now, but I think there has to be some kind of continuity between the community translations and the official one if you don't want people to get lost when the game hits 1.0. 

 

I'm probably making things too personal, but I really like your game, translating it is my way of "making it better" and helping it prosper through the French community, and I would somewhat live it as a treason if all my work was removed without any considerations nor credits. Even if nothing is kept from it, I think credits should be given. It's not a question of having my name mentioned anywhere, it's more like having a pat on the back because we gave time to PZ during the EA. Also, I REALLY think the community translations should be added to the game as long as it's in EA. I thought that was the reason why this thread existed, but I realised it wasn't when Build 32 came out with outdated translations. I'm not asking for an update after each sub-build release, but at least at every new build.

 

Just to make things clear, I'm not saying you're going to do it this way or that I felt that was your intention. You should take it more as a warning, as I think my fellow translators will share some of my thoughts. A few things to consider when the time comes ;)

 

And thanks for asking, it means a lot.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

Then, to answer your remaining suggestions :

  • I'm ok with having the lines a few weeks after the IWBUMS build is released to avoid any spoil (though the lines would be into the English files anyway, am I wrong?).
  • I thought of using the Workshop to make the translation available, but it would work like a mod. No problem in SP, but in MP this proves problematic if the server's not using it too. I asked the community about that and well... I didn't get many answers to be honest. I'll stick to the actual Google Drive system I'm using at the moment.

EDIT : I forgot to mention that I'm only answering here about in-game translations. The fact is they're not the only translations I work on: Mondoids, Mod Spotlights and patch-notes too, as well as common suggestions and "how to" guides about the servers (coming next !). I also try to answer the FR questions about suggestions and stuff "devs said" because we're not many following both TIS and FR forum. But I have to admit, this part is just the tip of the iceberg - the in-game translations are the big chunk.

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Hmm - these are all great points and thanks so much for bringing them up.

 

I think the primary thinking is simply that not every community has someone as dedicated as you in the translator driving seat. You're right in that if you're doing a great job already though there's no point in getting a refresh, and especially not if feathers get ruffled.

 

I guess the way ahead might be to simply ask each community what they feel would be best when the time comes? It's really tough for us to judge which community localisations are the best/worse and I think this was my response to it - that and the fact that there's so much to translate in the next build I honestly didn't think that we'd get people who wanted to translate the whole thing!

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Yep, it's hard to know whether a translation is good or not unless you have a team member who can read / play it (RJ, looking at you right now :P). Even with such an opportunity, one person can't verify everything. As far as I'm concerned, I'll respect TIS' choice as long as our previous work (whatever its fate will be) is shown respect in return :)

 

1.0 is not released tomorrow, and the team has time to think that ahead. In the meanwhile, I'll keep translating because this game deserves it and even if it takes longer than usual, I don't want to let the French community down.

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And come the final decision all that will be taken into account, and I sincerely doubt we'll have too many distressed voices if we handle it right and make the correct choices.

 

I just really wanted to be up-front about it all really. Come the great 1.0 everything will be far clearer than it is now in any case :)

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I just want to add to this discussion cause I think one great advantage of community based translations have not yet been emphasized enough: community translators play the game! According to my experience some professional translations do not really go smoothly cause the professional translator is not aware of the context in which a certain word appear in the game (assuming it's not a professional translator with hundreds of ours experience in playing PZ ;) ). So I think it is defenitely helpful to base the professional translation/localisation on the work the community has already done.

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Proof-reading is the least you have to do IMO. As a dev, even if I had confidence in a translation I wouldn't put it on a worldwide-released game without checking it first.

 

And don't overestimate the French translation :P Most of the work has been done by my predecessors so far ^_^

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I think Teesee has some pretty strong points. Community-driven translations with someone like him behind the wheel for certain languages could prove effective. Perhaps you can recruit some members of the community with the same drive he has to create them, and have some of them professionally done if you can't find someone like him for a certain language. As you said, Bats, I know of the professionalism and heart that the developers have for this game, so it's reasonable to see why you would want them to be as accurate as possible. I like your professional proof-reading idea too.

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I couldn't agree more with Teesee. As a the sole Polish translator (there's been some guys before but now it's just me) I would be massively let down if you guys let some other people do the job instead of me. If you want to spend some cash on it then just pay the community translators half the price and you have yourself a win-win situation but in my case it really can't be done any better because I just LIKE to do it and I do it THE BEST I can everytime because I love this community and your game. I sometimes push it to the point that my fiancée complains and asks me to "stop that translating already because she is also in need of attention" :)

 

Think also of your future projects beyond Project Zomboid. You now have a team of faithful translators who render your game into a bunch of foreign languages for free and they do it to (I'm sure) their best abilities. Wouldn't you like the exact same people translate your next games to come as well? I certainly would. Because we've proven ourselves.

 

Countless of times I've seen RJ post new stuff to translate and then other translators posting ready translations in like a few hours or the same day. I wish you luck finding a professionall company doing just that.

 

I also don't really see the point of "professional" proofreading because I'm sure those people would just do their best to show you that our translations were just bad and force so many unnecessary changes you'd be suprised how people could have played the game in the past without moaning in the first place.

 

But hey, it's just me and my Polishness.

 

 

P.S. I'm also a bachelor of English with specialty in translation.

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TIS just wants to ensure that the translations are consistent with the English variant for all languages, so that the game may be as inclusive as possible. It's not meant to be a critique on your own individual work.

 

It's just a bit of polish and giving everything a second look.

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I'm really sorry that I ruffled feathers in this thread, I really should have considered my words a lot better when all I really wanted was to hear thoughts on the subject and didn't want to have been seen as leading folks down a blind alley sometime in the future.

 

Although I genuinely couldn't name them right now (as I just can't remember) I had heard on the grapevine that some translations were better than others - and when I'm on the brink off dumping 7000 lines of parodies, fake songs, news reports, commercials, country music etc into the game [with more to come] it had me worried. As EG says, we do want a consistency and that was the sole focus of my thought. I feel really guilty that I might have sounded like I was calling the talent and time of the likes of Geras and Teesee into question.

 

Given the passionate arguments above, it's clear to me that this should be approached on a case-by-case basis - but could I also suggest us all coming back to this thread once the Radio and TV stuff is out there and you've all seen/played/read it? 

 

I can't promise we won't look into proof-readers etc when the time comes - to be quite honest I wish I'd had one for my own stuff, and was actually talking to a few, as there's just so much of it and I was worried about my American 'voice'. Whatever happens though, people will be credited and I'm quite sure that sad_face.jpg will be avoided if we work together and keep communication lines open.

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It's also worth stressing how tremendously grateful we are about being able to list such variation in the "supported languages" on Steam. We love that the work of our community has helped spread the game to those who would otherwise not be able to play, not being native English speakers. That our game has large non-English communities and players is a source of huge pride to us and we know that this would never have happened without all this amazing collaboration from you guys. It's amazing, we love you all dearly for it, and we hope you know that - even if we don't stress it often enough <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

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Don't worry guys, I never felt like any feathers were ruffled as far as I'm concerned. I don't feel like my "talent" has been put into question. Geras and me have a different opinion on details (re proof reading for instance) but I don't think we felt attacked.

 

As for the 7000 lines, I'll quit my job in now two weeks so it'll give me some occupation during my unemployed time :P

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