RELEASED: Build 30.12

[Moose65]

Some feedback on canning......

 

No vinegar at all in the grocery store. I find this very strange, as the only significant source of vinegar I have been able to find is Spiffo restaurants (I'm playing in sandbox on abundant loot with lucky to try out the system). I checked a few houses and found one jar lid and one bottle of vinegar. Sugar is something you may want to consider to add to the loot table in grocery stores, along with coffee, tea bags, flour, yeast, etc. Grocery stores should carry all these items but currently don't. Simply strange that these are only found in houses but not in the place people would buy them.

 

Second.......I can't get canning to work at all. I have eggplant, empty jars, vinegar, sugar, lids, and a water bottle in my inventory. There is no option to fill jars with water at the sink (which seems strange, as this should be something you should also be able to drink out of). Right clicking eggplant gives no options, along with right clicking lids, jars, sugar, vinegar. Either I'm doing it completely wrong or something is broke.

 

Edit: Never mind the second comment. when you said 5 I thought 5 hunger worth, not 5 whole eggplants!!!!!! That amount may be a bit too generous especially if their pretty good sized ones. This is reaching first aid kit silliness (picture enclosed)

 

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=350687554

 

I would suggest toning down the amount to 3 maybe, especially if you were worried about this being an easy way to store vegetables. Also, putting a glass jar in a oven was a little bit immersion breaking. I know this is just the start of it, but we really need proper canning tools later like a pressure cooker.

 

Also, I'm not sure if refunding fresh vegetables is the best thing when opening them. I think you should get back a canned version, such as canned sweet eggplant with the current system (which would have no penalties to boredom/happiness), and if you plan on having a renewable version of canning, you could apply boredom and happiness penalties for not using sugar + vinegar and simply call it canned eggplant or what not.

 

Edit Edit: Also, forgot to mention, there needs to be a way that a skilled cook can receive back the lids, or canning is gonna be a novelty if it isn't renewable somehow. If your worried about canning being too good early game, put a minimum cooking requirement of 2 or so, and make it so that level 5 cooks can re-use the bands.

[deprav]

Thought for a tweak for the new zombies-luring-each-other feature :

Right now when a large event happens (such as a house alarm), the massive group that comes to form then become a swarm of constant weird movements, zombies luring each other on very small distances which looks kinda silly. It kinda looks like a metal concert mosh pit more than a dead horde

__________________________________________________________________________________________

The "horde attracting itself" thingy might be more game breaking than I first thought : I raided Muldraugh's Police Station alone pretty easily, I ran to the building, broke a window to enter and then rushed the first door to have something to slow them down while speed looting, turned out they stopped banging on the door pretty quickly as they got more interested in each other, then meta-sounds happened, only a small portion of the zombies I could see outside (barelly) moved toward the meta-sounds. They just seemed more interested in each other.

 

 

 

Update, build 30.9:

• Hopefully fixed "dancing" zombies
• Added experimental zombies behavior: when a zombie inside a group spot you, he may also attract other zombies to you

That seems to have helped a lot ! The actual zombie AI is getting close to perfect imo, they "conglomerate" in a more logical way, they kite each other when they spot you, so far I haven't seen any weirdness like described in the quote above again, they had no trouble attacking doors/windows together instead of the weird loss of interest they had before (I'll report if I ever witness it again).

They probably still need a few minor vision/hearing/memory tweaks, and maybe raising the amount of the "normal quantity" for Survival.

I'm playing a sandbox game with an insane amount of slow shamblers, long memory and pinpoint hearing (I created it before the senses buff, ho boy...), this is terrifying, + All the loot on very rare.

I walked from Twiggy's, all the way down south of Muldraugh, to this location, going through the forest paths to avoid the roads, setting up my tent inbetween trees at night, in 4 ingame days, epic journey ! I reached WP Twiggy's on 30.8, was rather "easy" to reach it and be safe upstairs with the previous AI bug, but now 30.9 has kicked in the insane amount of zeds just feels like Hell, it's freaking awesome.

I stood next to a window on the 2nd floor, a few spotted me, which quickly became a horde, breaking 2 windows, I fled outside through a clear window, to the gigamart's parking lot... Swarms incoming from every directions, I don't think I would have made it out if they weren't on the slowest speed for my sandbox game.

In short, great job on the AI so far.

Edit :

Would be nice to have a slider instead of the 3 easy/normal/veryhard choices each Z-setting have in the Sandbox. This way, as players, we could try some more precise adjustements and report which options & numbers makes it perfectly hard. So you guys don't have to tweak it yourself every new build and hear us moan : "THEY SEE 2 GOOD, NERF PLS", "THEY NO HEAR ENUFF, BUFF PLS" after each release

[Florin]

So Florin, let's maybe focus on the future instead of the past. What could TIS do that would make the new system feel good for you? Are you willing to give it a chance or are you only willing to accept the old system back?

As I mentioned elsewhere, would you be okay with having timed actions/inventory management quickly regenerate your exertion so that you're actually encouraged to do things in between slaying zombies/exploring? Spend some time in a house messing with inventory or cooking your raw food, or building something and exertion could come back up? The point of the system is to get you to do other things than fight or run, and it sounds like that's what you do/want to do as well.

I honestly do want to work with you and anyone else who doesn't like the current iteration to get something worked out we can all enjoy. I apologize if I'm coming off blunt, that's not my intent. The current system is something I've been asking for for a long time so I hope you can understand that it's a bit frustrating when I feel like you're dismissing it out of hand without giving it a chance (or trying it after it's been balanced).

Have you tried a new game in the latest update today? Do you feel like that's a step in the right direction?

Again, I apologize if I've been letting my frustration show towards you. We both want the same thing, which is for PZ to continue to grow and flourish. I hope we can work together towards that goal.

Thank you. I apologise for getting my hackles up as well. I haven't had time to try the new build yet, I'm looking forward to doing so. I'm fine with exertion having an increased effect and agree that recovery from it was too quick under the old system, but I don't think it should take a dedicated resting period to recover from it, I think passive recovery is better. I'm not married to the old system at all and expect the new system to be altered and tweaked over the next few revisions with player feedback, so I'm quite content to see where it goes.

I'm also extremely pleased that the developers added the option to tweak the effects of exertion in sandbox. I don't want to force my notion of how things should be on the developers, it's their game. I'm happy to be met halfway.

[Jack Bower]

You can use a double boiler to disinfect glass jars, maybe juts make it require a cooking pot or something.

[Blasted_Taco]

You can use a double boiler to disinfect glass jars, maybe juts make it require a cooking pot or something.

We cant even take water from the river to boil it yet and you want to disinfect glass jars man, slow down cowboy.

[Jack Bower]

Bacteria is what makes food expire and we are talking about implementing canning so I would assume you would do the whole process in boiling water rather then just throwing glass jars onto the fire.

[diogenesl]

This is building up to be one of the greatest builds ever, in sorry for the person who it's going to create the final changelog, it's huge this time

[CaptKaspar]

I'd like to be able to re-use jars. Eat your mayonnaise and pickles, then jar some stuff!

 

And whoever said canned strawberries would be bad: You really need to try "jam". It's delicious!

 

Jarred Strawberries that require vinegar would be bad. Vinegar and strawberries together? blah

 

There's no vinegar in jam, there would have to be a different recipe to make Jam that doesnt use vinegar. Sugar and some citric acid sure, but no vinegar!

[false_chicken]

I see the guys above me talking about stamina. I have an idea instead of making beta blockers as powerful as they are now. I mean have them have to same effect to calm your character down. But instead add something like adrenaline shots that last like 10 20 min in game it fights all fatigue in that time, increases stamina for running and swinging your weapon, but when it wears out you become highly fatigued stamina lowers and attack strength goes down until you rest.

I always wish there was like a strength skill where the higher the skill goes up the harder you hit or the more you can swing your melee weapon around without becoming worn out and for each level you also gain a plus one to carry capacity so at level 5 you have +5 to your default carry cap. Just ideas.

Oh and generators or solar panels? Are they ever going to a thing? While I was on amazon on cyber Monday they had portable camping solar panels for small device and they were fairly cheap. So maybe some camping store or the mall would have them in the game.

I thought about solar panels and such as well but came to realize that if the devs want to strive for realism they probably wouldn't add them. Mostly because it does take quite a bit of knowledge/equipment to set a system like that up. I was looking it up for some supplemental power for my home but found that its a pretty technical field and I wouldn't think most people would have the knowledge to work that out. I mean you can infer what to do with hammer and nails but electronic circuits and engineering are a whole other ball game. Its much more than just hooking a panel up to a battery.

At least that's my opinion. You might be able to get away by adding some tech skill and books but I still wouldn't feel like that would be very realistic. I have an introduction textbook to electric circuits and its pretty damn thick and technical. I'd find it hard to believe you could find time to get through the book, find the panels, wires, deep cycle batteries, inverters, etc. and do all that while nearly starving in the apocalypse. Also batteries and panels break/wear and wouldn't be sustainable unless you had a constant supply of loot to replace/repair your system.

Again just my humble opinion .

[Blasted_Taco]

 

I see the guys above me talking about stamina. I have an idea instead of making beta blockers as powerful as they are now. I mean have them have to same effect to calm your character down. But instead add something like adrenaline shots that last like 10 20 min in game it fights all fatigue in that time, increases stamina for running and swinging your weapon, but when it wears out you become highly fatigued stamina lowers and attack strength goes down until you rest.

I always wish there was like a strength skill where the higher the skill goes up the harder you hit or the more you can swing your melee weapon around without becoming worn out and for each level you also gain a plus one to carry capacity so at level 5 you have +5 to your default carry cap. Just ideas.

Oh and generators or solar panels? Are they ever going to a thing? While I was on amazon on cyber Monday they had portable camping solar panels for small device and they were fairly cheap. So maybe some camping store or the mall would have them in the game.

I thought about solar panels and such as well but came to realize that if the devs want to strive for realism they probably wouldn't add them. Mostly because it does take quite a bit of knowledge/equipment to set a system like that up. I was looking it up for some supplemental power for my home but found that its a pretty technical field and I wouldn't think most people would have the knowledge to work that out. I mean you can infer what to do with hammer and nails but electronic circuits and engineering are a whole other ball game. Its much more than just hooking a panel up to a battery.

At least that's my opinion. You might be able to get away by adding some tech skill and books but I still wouldn't feel like that would be very realistic. I have an introduction textbook to electric circuits and its pretty damn thick and technical. I'd find it hard to believe you could find time to get through the book, find the panels, wires, deep cycle batteries, inverters, etc. and do all that while nearly starving in the apocalypse. Also batteries and panels break/wear and wouldn't be sustainable unless you had a constant supply of loot to replace/repair your system.

Again just my humble opinion .

 

 

I guess that is when proffessions kick in and you have the electronic profession to be able to do all that fancy stuff?

[false_chicken]

 

 

I see the guys above me talking about stamina. I have an idea instead of making beta blockers as powerful as they are now. I mean have them have to same effect to calm your character down. But instead add something like adrenaline shots that last like 10 20 min in game it fights all fatigue in that time, increases stamina for running and swinging your weapon, but when it wears out you become highly fatigued stamina lowers and attack strength goes down until you rest.

I always wish there was like a strength skill where the higher the skill goes up the harder you hit or the more you can swing your melee weapon around without becoming worn out and for each level you also gain a plus one to carry capacity so at level 5 you have +5 to your default carry cap. Just ideas.

Oh and generators or solar panels? Are they ever going to a thing? While I was on amazon on cyber Monday they had portable camping solar panels for small device and they were fairly cheap. So maybe some camping store or the mall would have them in the game.

I thought about solar panels and such as well but came to realize that if the devs want to strive for realism they probably wouldn't add them. Mostly because it does take quite a bit of knowledge/equipment to set a system like that up. I was looking it up for some supplemental power for my home but found that its a pretty technical field and I wouldn't think most people would have the knowledge to work that out. I mean you can infer what to do with hammer and nails but electronic circuits and engineering are a whole other ball game. Its much more than just hooking a panel up to a battery.

At least that's my opinion. You might be able to get away by adding some tech skill and books but I still wouldn't feel like that would be very realistic. I have an introduction textbook to electric circuits and its pretty damn thick and technical. I'd find it hard to believe you could find time to get through the book, find the panels, wires, deep cycle batteries, inverters, etc. and do all that while nearly starving in the apocalypse. Also batteries and panels break/wear and wouldn't be sustainable unless you had a constant supply of loot to replace/repair your system.

Again just my humble opinion .

 

 

I guess that is when proffessions kick in and you have the electronic profession to be able to do all that fancy stuff?

 

That would solve the knowledge issue. Now the supply problem lol. (Well if you want to be realistic. You could just ignore that and make the batteries and equipment last forever.)

[RobertJohnson]

This is building up to be one of the greatest builds ever, in sorry for the person who it's going to create the final changelog, it's huge this time

 

Holy fuck yes

 

I forgot about it, now I'm sad

 

Gonna need to check all the page to see every update we made and update OP.. Ooooh, I'm so lazy right now, and it's not even 9am..

[Wolfen]

 

This is building up to be one of the greatest builds ever, in sorry for the person who it's going to create the final changelog, it's huge this time

 

Holy fuck yes

 

I forgot about it, now I'm sad

 

Gonna need to check all the page to see every update we made and update OP.. Ooooh, I'm so lazy right now, and it's not even 9am..

 

 

There is no rest for the wicked

 

Up and at 'em

Keep the updates flowing

[Blasted_Taco]

I wonder if is possible to be eating while resting, would it take too much time to do a double action?

[RobertJohnson]

Nah, i'll do something like eating/read a book = bonus endurance regen (like when you rest)

[Charlessx]

Nah, i'll do something like eating/read a book = bonus endurance regen (like when you rest)

 

Would reading a stat book give you bonus regen?

[RobertJohnson]

It's still reading, so yes

[Rass]

 

I'd like to be able to re-use jars. Eat your mayonnaise and pickles, then jar some stuff!

 

And whoever said canned strawberries would be bad: You really need to try "jam". It's delicious!

 

Jarred Strawberries that require vinegar would be bad. Vinegar and strawberries together? blah

 

There's no vinegar in jam, there would have to be a different recipe to make Jam that doesnt use vinegar. Sugar and some citric acid sure, but no vinegar!

 

 

You should try jarred strawberry compote, it can last for years and it's great! Just the fruit, boiled water and sugar. Also works great with apples and pears.

[Dudeman325]

Not sure if this has been brought up, but all the discussion on exertion so far seems to be about combat. Let's talk tree chopping...

First off, if you manually chop down trees (hold control / right click, then attack the tree) there is currently no exertion penalty. At all. You can chop trees all day until you get sleepy as long as you hit them manually.

However, if you chop a tree automatically (right click the tree and select Chop Tree), exertion goes up incredibly fast. It feels even faster than attacking zombies. Without any traits, chopping one tree brings you to moderate exertion, and if you immediately chop another you'll go straight past high exertion to exhaustion.

Maybe bring these a bit more in line? Something like being exhausted after constantly chopping 5-10 trees either manually or automatically? That's 25-50 swings with an axe, which seems to be about the same that it takes to get exhausted fighting zombies from what I've tested so far.

Edit: A question, but not entirely related to Build 30. Are vitamins supposed to fight exertion? The tooltip isn't very clear if vitamins are for exertion or drowsy/sleepiness. If they are supposed to help with exertion I haven't noticed any effect with the new system. If vitamins are for fighting sleepiness, maybe the name and tooltip could be changed to something like "Caffeine Pills: reduces drowsiness"? I'm not quite sure what "fighting the tiredness" is in this situation.

[psykikk]

Nah, i'll do something like eating/read a book = bonus endurance regen (like when you rest)

 

if that could be included it would be awesome. 

 

I also would love to see actual eating / sitting / relaxing / sleeping animations. 

 

overall, more animations for all kinds of actions

[Kirrus]

This is building up to be one of the greatest builds ever, in sorry for the person who it's going to create the final changelog, it's huge this time

 

Holy fuck yes

 

I forgot about it, now I'm sad

 

Gonna need to check all the page to see every update we made and update OP.. Ooooh, I'm so lazy right now, and it's not even 9am..

 

Don't forget the bug fixes

• Lua Items DisplayName / Translation Issues
• Light switch float after a wall is destroyed, unable to destroy or remove
• Cooking - Able to exceed ingredient limit
• Infinite raw bird
• Game won't load
• Dark screen
• Walls do not fade upstairs in Build 30
• shotgun ammo tooltip & zombies causing lag
• ^M characters in projectzomboid.sh
• Dead zombie sprites not intergrating with floor properly
• Build 30 Cooking Pot Not Returned and Infinite Bowl of Stew
• build 30: all food rotten when starting with erosion %
• Rotten Food,it's everywhere
• Moving fast with fracture
• Carpentery issue....
• "Remove stich" option don't work
• Unbarricading doesn't return any nails or planks
• Fractures heal too fast
• Sometimes the well fed status "cancels" when you eat low-nutricient food
• Stitched wounds bug
• build 30 bug
• Public server displays older versions when re-visited several times during playsession
• Farming problem
• "Remove stitches" doesn't remove stitches after the action is complete.
• Fishing/Sleeping activation proximity
• rotten food issue
• Sandbox Menu: Positioning Bug
• Some errors in files
• SandBox Option Not responding.
• VINES
• Cabbage
• Painkillers don't ease the pain
• Strange Issue with Stiching
• 30.6, need to confirm if fast-forwarding makes you recover from fatigue faster.
• Moving fast with tired status
• Cannot make campfire kit or open seed packs
• Two really small issues about translations menu in options
• Offline Mode Seed Issue (30.8)

[EnigmaGrey]

First off, if you manually chop down trees (hold control / right click, then attack the tree) there is currently no exertion penalty. At all. You can chop trees all day until you get sleepy as long as you hit them manually.

That's going to end up being a bug, then.

[B4nny]

Since Chopping Trees is harder now with exertion penaltys, shouldnt it give you something? like XP or/and Carpentry, Agility or Blade Points.

Its the same akt like hitting Zombies which gives you xp and Blade skill. please?

[Madigari]

 

First off, if you manually chop down trees (hold control / right click, then attack the tree) there is currently no exertion penalty. At all. You can chop trees all day until you get sleepy as long as you hit them manually.

That's going to end up being a bug, then.

 

I think that might have to do with that change that was made, where swinging the weapon only exerts you based on how much damage you do to a zombie. Tree damage probably isn't recognized.

[Moose65]

Since Chopping Trees is harder now with exertion penaltys, shouldnt it give you something? like XP or/and Carpentry, Agility or Blade Points.

Its the same akt like hitting Zombies which gives you xp and Blade skill. please?

 

Chopping trees already gave you raw XP + Maintenance XP if I recall correctly.