Zombie AI quirks

[Moose65]

I can't help but notice a few quirks about zombies, and while I'm sure your working on them, I just had to mention them.

 

I notice a lot of the time they'll prefer to beat on a door or window instead of pathing through a nearby open one to follow you.

 

If you aggro a zombie, they'll tend to stop to smash a nearby window/door instead of pursue you (even with you directly in line of sight).

 

Then there's also the random window/door that seems to anger them for no reason so they walk over to pound on it.

 

Sorry I'm not being more specific, but for some reason windows/doors end up higher on their priority list then a nice meaty survivor running around. Downtown is a good place to trigger the following you then stopping to bash out a window. If you watch them you can see them go and randomly attack windows/doors (without some kinda provocation like a metagame sound or something similar, far as I can tell.) You can also drag several zombies into a house with smashed windows and shut the door on them, and most of them will stop to beat on it without considering the smashed window(s) that is slightly to the left and/or right.

 

I know there is a lot of work being put towards NPCs at the moment, but I really feel that zombies could use a little bit of love in the AI department as well at this moment.

 

 

[Madigari]

I agree that they need to not go after windows when the survivor is near them. I think that might be a fault in the memory duration or something.

 

But I think that if you run through a door and there's a broken open window a bit away from the door, they should go after the door. I think zombies should go in as direct a line as possible towards stimuli.

[Moose65]

I agree that they need to not go after windows when the survivor is near them. I think that might be a fault in the memory duration or something.

 

But I think that if you run through a door and there's a broken open window a bit away from the door, they should go after the door. I think zombies should go in as direct a line as possible towards stimuli.

I'll have to slightly disagree there. While yes, they are pretty much direct, I don't think they should be as dumb as to where they won't take a window or door 5 feet away from them.

 

Window in another room? Sure, they should be that stupid. Window in the same room on the same wall facing? Yeah, they shouldn't be beating on the door in that scenario.

 

Edit: Think of it this way, if there was a single wall between you and the zombie, do you think they would stop pursuit just because you ran behind it? No, they would go around it. I think doors/windows should be treated in the same aspect, especially if their near each other.

[IronCoffins]

The way I see it, Zombies should pursue the player at all costs until line of sight is broken. Then if the player cannot be heard after some time then a timer so to speak starts untill they forget. Though I really feel for zombies that they never forget, like Romero types. If you run in a building then the zombies will just keep banging on that door untill they see food again or meta event. But should never just forget or set there idle.

[robban279]

If among buildings and rooms I think they would try to take the same path you do, or if on an open field or they have clear vision on you they would take the straight path to you. They are dumb as f**k literally. They don't stop and think "oh what if I go through there instead?".

When they stop for no particular reason and start banging a window or door, I always imagine maybe there was a rat or cat on the other side... Or maybe they saw their own shadow and thought it was something living.

I think they tend to go to places for no particular reason, other than hunger instinct. Go there, walk here... Their hunger drives them to just walk and walk to stumble upon food. Some zombies are even so miserable so they just stand there, waiting for food to pop up in front of their face.

[jeffstaples1982]

The zombies are made to be mindless with very little to no conscious awareness, meaning they're incapable of thinking for themselves.  Technically the traditional zombie virus infects and controls the body, every organ is dead including the brain so processing anything is out the window, hence why they mindlessly wander and don't use anything that required any type of complex thought or motor skills(which made me wonder when I first saw it how a zombie was able to leap through a window but cant turn a door knob)

[Moose65]

The same argument for them being dumb can be exactly the same reason for them going through an open window next to the door. The fact that you shut a door in front of them could be perceived as a wall to them. I'm not saying they should be smart enough to navigate to the other facing of the room to take a window, but their navigation should allow them to go through a very nearby opening (talking about a 3~5 tile radius max).

 

If you was to go behind a single wall, they don't stop to sit there and beat on it till the wall falls down, they would go around it and attempt to spot you (I can just imagine all these houses now with chunks of walls beaten out of them because you ran around a corner). I simply feel that them stopping to beat on a door/window when there is LITERALLY an open window/door next to them is a bit extreme.

 

I do like your explanation for them stopping to randomly beat on windows or doors. I still don't think they should stop to do that though when a survivor is within LoS of them (or making noise).

 

Also, when it comes to them leaping through windows, If the animation is ever redone, it should be more like them falling through them instead (and being significantly slower than a player that hops through them).

[CaptKaspar]

The zombies are made to be mindless with very little to no conscious awareness, meaning they're incapable of thinking for themselves.  Technically the traditional zombie virus infects and controls the body, every organ is dead including the brain so processing anything is out the window, hence why they mindlessly wander and don't use anything that required any type of complex thought or motor skills(which made me wonder when I first saw it how a zombie was able to leap through a window but cant turn a door

 

I agree with everything you said, other than the jumping through a window and opening a door comparison.

 

Remember walking in itself is actually a fairly complex motor skill. It takes a human (with a completely clean mental slate) about a year or so on average to learn to walk. Balance, strength, and coordination are all required at dynamic levels. However, walking is a natural motion for humans and we have either evolved or were created to do it for long periods of time. So the fact that zombies are doing it at all, indicates they have retained some complex motor skills. Jumping through a window, or floundering and flopping through one, shouldn't be a far cry from walking. I think if they changed the animation to a flop through an open window, instead of an agile hop, it would solve the problem

 

Opening a door however is not natural. A door knob is an object conceptually created by man to serve a set purpose. To interact with it (purposefully) you need to be able to correlate the concept of turning the knob to the door opening. That step of correlation is on a higher order of thinking. Therefore, I don't think zombies would be able to purposefully open a door. Sometimes the blind squirrel finds a nut though, and they are able to open one, but it was just by luck.

[Madigari]

Edit: Think of it this way, if there was a single wall between you and the zombie, do you think they would stop pursuit just because you ran behind it? No, they would go around it. I think doors/windows should be treated in the same aspect, especially if their near each other.

 

I'm of the camp that zombies need to amass against walls and tear through/topple them, personally, so I don't think they should stop pursuit. I want them to mindlessly press against the wall until there's so many of them, the collective force ruins the wall.

 

But, in the situation you're describing, it watches you go around the wall, so it would follow you as the most "logical" course of action. Food went that way, so go that way to get food. That's why I think they would aim for the door if the door is what you used to get into the room. If a zombie is nothing but natural motor skills and a drive to eat, they wouldn't have the spacial awareness to think "door and window lead to the same thing: food".

 

But then you get into all sorts of other horde-mentality. Such as what if a zombie brushes against a nearby window, and another zombie interprets that to mean there's something behind -that- window now. Then zombie number two goes for the window, and then zombie one through however many others follow because they assume the same thing zombie number two did.

 

Or, at least, that's how things would function in my "ideal" definition of a zombie horde.

[jeffstaples1982]

 

The zombies are made to be mindless with very little to no conscious awareness, meaning they're incapable of thinking for themselves.  Technically the traditional zombie virus infects and controls the body, every organ is dead including the brain so processing anything is out the window, hence why they mindlessly wander and don't use anything that required any type of complex thought or motor skills(which made me wonder when I first saw it how a zombie was able to leap through a window but cant turn a door

 

I agree with everything you said, other than the jumping through a window and opening a door comparison.

 

Remember walking in itself is actually a fairly complex motor skill. It takes a human (with a completely clean mental slate) about a year or so on average to learn to walk. Balance, strength, and coordination are all required at dynamic levels. However, walking is a natural motion for humans and we have either evolved or were created to do it for long periods of time. So the fact that zombies are doing it at all, indicates they have retained some complex motor skills. Jumping through a window, or floundering and flopping through one, shouldn't be a far cry from walking. I think if they changed the animation to a flop through an open window, instead of an agile hop, it would solve the problem

 

Opening a door however is not natural. A door knob is an object conceptually created by man to serve a set purpose. To interact with it (purposefully) you need to be able to correlate the concept of turning the knob to the door opening. That step of correlation is on a higher order of thinking. Therefore, I don't think zombies would be able to purposefully open a door. Sometimes the blind squirrel finds a nut though, and they are able to open one, but it was just by luck.

 

 

Point made lol, which also leads one to wonder how much of the brain is actually still 'alive' up there, and I go back on my last post, the organs arent 'dead', since zombies technically arent 'dead', all of their organs could theoretically keep functioning, the host is just overtaken by a virus that overrides the brains processing module...if that was the case then the virus could mutate over time, being able to control much more than just flopping through a window or mindlessly shambling.  Thinking about it that'd be a great way to increase late-game difficulty, since its impossible to kill every zombie on the map, over time allow the virus to 'mutate' at random periods, allowing them to learn how to open doors, run faster, block, and carry weapons(could you imagine going to a new area and running through a door from a zombie thinking youre safe and you hear and few turns and he comes busting in?).  Theoretically it is a very possible outcome if left alone too long.  The Ebola virus mutates every single time a virus cell splits into two, the zombie virus could do the same, but since its in a spot of neurological power over its host it could mutate to enable a higher capacity of control over its victim.

[harakka]

Or it's a magic spell by the end boss wizard

[thiosk]

The Ebola virus mutates every single time a virus cell splits into two, 

 

My apologies for pedantry, but its the internet, so not sorry at all actually. Viruses don't actually replicate via cell division. They infect a cell, and turn its cellular machinery over to produce proteins important for viral manufacture. The virus thus converts the cell into a virus factory. Once that process reaches a certain point, the cell splits open and the new viruses flood into the surrounding tissue.

 

Ebola specifically targets front line immune cells and the cells lining the circulatory system, among others.

 

Mutation is a different process wherein errors are coded during genetic replication. In most cases, this doesn't do anything valuable to the virus, but if such a mutation makes that particular particle much more successful, and it is then able to copy itself, then that is passed on.

 

Any details about how (presumably) viral infection causes zombification and influences the behavior of the host organism are unfortunately best left to those not currently fending off masses of them with a golf club and two butter knives.

[jeffstaples1982]

Ok well replace 'two' with 'many' since I was merely just using it as an example and didn't rely on strict scientific facts since you said yourself are best left to others not dealing with it, mutations are much higher in RNA-type viruses(which Ebola is, and also mutates 200-300% faster than a standard RNA virus) than DNA-type viruses, so my point still stands that the zombie virus could mutate at a rapid rate regardless of your pointless biology lesson that didnt really teach anything since all you had to say was 'it splits, not duplicate' to correct a statement that really had no bearing on the OP to begin with.

[Suomiboi]

As Harakka said, we don't know if it's a virus, magic or a flashmob so drawing conclusions from that basis is, while fun, not anything to draw conclusions from.

[Bullwinkle]

My biggest complaint with the zombie AI is they mostly stand around and occasionally do a little walking. I think they should occasionally stand around and mostly do a lot of walking. More chaos, more Brownian motion. Turn up the heat!

 

Starting on day 5 of my current run-through (as soon as I realized how broken this is), I took down all my sheets and barricades, opened all my doors and windows and left them that way 24/7. No barricades, No wood walls. No log walls. No log walls made with high carpentry skill. Just open doors and windows is all you need for a safehouse currently. At least that is the case for my house 1 block from downtown West Point.

 

The solution is simple, I believe. Make half the zombies on the map be roamers where when they walk, instead of 2 or 3 steps, they take 40 or 50 steps. Suddenly you'll actually need to close your doors and windows.

[IronCoffins]

I've brought this up, on here recently as well. Aside the zombie migration with big hordes, theirs needs to be more more motion with the zombies in general. They should be roaming all over the place, only ones idle are ones that should be stuck or with out any means to move